Help with C2 please

[LemoN]

Soooo, I'm just trying to set up the US 60mm mortars on the "Closing the Pocket" map in a way where they're a bit further away from the action and had to find out that I couldn't get a C2 link with anything, even if they were pretty much next to their HQ's...

Is there a way where I can have the mortars NOT 5 meters away from their HQ's and have contact with them? :confused:

[Panzerfest]

I deployed them in the treed gully behind town with one of the ammo bearer teams in a radio jeep.

Not sure if the jeep needs to be manned, but it seemed to work!

[LemoN]

I deployed them in the treed gully behind town with one of the ammo bearer teams in a radio jeep.

Not sure if the jeep needs to be manned, but it seemed to work!

Ahhh, didn't think of the jeeps!

Thanks mate!

EDIT: There still seems to be a problem with establishing command sometimes.

I just did that setup, everything works flawlessly, then I move the mortars and the jeep 2 tiles to the left and suddenly one of the two mortars doesn't have contact to his HQ anymore. :confused:

When I move that mortar away it magically keeps contact with the Company HQ but not with the Platoon HQ, so I move the platoon HQ directly next to the Company HQ and place the mortar back with the radio jeep, no contact to the Platoon. When I place the Platoon HQ directly next to the mortar the contact is established. The Platoon simply doesn't seem to be able to contact the Company HQ, even when they're in the same tile. Now the funny thing is that the Platoon HQ shows that it's in contact with the Company HQ.

Everything works fine for the second mortar team though.

[gunnergoz]

I too have had similar issues. In the scenario at the command post/crossroads one mortar team seemed to never be in contact no matter where I put it or the platoon CO, so I finally ended up using it in direct fire. In that event it managed to knock out two armored cars by spooking their crews and forcing them to dismount and be cut up before the mortar itself getting clobbered by one of the other A/C's.

[Peregrine]

I am not sure how you are going about it but I was a little confused by this as well.

The C2 link needs to "voice". Visual will not be enough to direct the mortars. I think this is about 40 metres or less.

Also I have noticed there is a bit of a bug. Doing the setup for closing the gap I initially placed a mortar near the Company HQ. I didn't actually want to do this and after I moved it to the weapons platoon HQ the user interface still showed that the C2 was to the company HQ and nothing to the Weapons HQ. The mortar worked as it should though in that the Weapons Plt HQ could call in strikes and the company HQ could not.

Read the manual for clarification on the messages as well. If you are moving the mortars around you will need to redeploy them.

[akd]

The green lights and the red Xs in the far bottom left do not show the current command status of the selected unit other than to its immediate superior HQ. It is meant to show the status of the chain of command for the unit's formation. Here is the mortar team that starts out of contact in Closing the Pocket:

The lower left corner does not show that the selected team has no comms with the Platoon HQ and the Company HQ, but does have comms with the Battalion HQ. It shows that the selected team does not have comms with its Platoon HQ, that the Platoon HQ does not have comms with the Company HQ, but that the Company HQ has comms with Battalion HQ.

Also, three rules were added to the game that allow more flexibility in the use of subordinate units that are cutoff from C2 from their normal superior HQ (either because of separation from the HQ or destruction of the HQ). However, none of these effect display of the normal C2 chain shown in the lower left.

1. A unit that is cutoff from its own HQ but is physically near (voice/visual range) of another HQ can gain "in command" status, but this is for morale and relative spotting (sharing information on targets that they can see) purposes only. It does not alter the standard chain of command display in the lower left, nor plug an on-map indirect fire unit back into the radio net so it can receive indirect fire mission requests.

Example, I moved the Charlie Co. HQ right next to the mortar team that is out of contact with its platoon HQ. The mortar team now shows "in command" icons (visual and voice), but the breaks in the C2 chain have not been altered. The mortar team is still not in contact with the Platoon HQ and the Platoon HQ is still not in contact with the Company HQ.

2. Any HQ within visual/voice command range of an on-map indirect fire unit (mortar or infantry gun) can spot for this unit.

3. Any on-map indirect fire unit (mortar or infantry gun) that is physically adjacent to a vehicle with a radio can be accessed by spotters/HQs with radios for indirect fire missions.

Not saying this is not difficult to learn or couldn't be improved, but there is no bug here. Things are working properly and predictably based on the system outlined above.

[Peregrine]

I can see how it is working now in that the command chain on the left starts at the immdediate superior and speaks of communications links in a chain going up. The green doesn't doesn't directly relate to which unit the mortar team is speaking which I was expecting.

This aspect of the game is a little fiddly allround.

[Dietrich]

When first playing as the Germans in the "Closing the Pocket" scenario, I found that my on-map mortars were out of C2 in their original position, because the section HQ has no radio and the platoon HQ is on the far side of the German starting area near the company HQ. Wanting my mortars to be out of enemy LOS yet still be clear to fire, I set them up behind the copse in which the company HQ was camped out, then I positioned the section HQ about halfway between the mortars and the company HQ, and thus the mortars were in C2. When I used the company HQ to spot for the mortars, I interpreted this as the company HQ verbally passing targeting info to the section HQ, who in turn passed it on to the mortars (which, due to their position, didn't have LOS to the company HQ).

[akd]

When first playing as the Germans in the "Closing the Pocket" scenario, I found that my on-map mortars were out of C2 in their original position, because the section HQ has no radio and the platoon HQ is on the far side of the German starting area near the company HQ. Wanting my mortars to be out of enemy LOS yet still be clear to fire, I set them up behind the copse in which the company HQ was camped out, then I positioned the section HQ about halfway between the mortars and the company HQ, and thus the mortars were in C2. When I used the company HQ to spot for the mortars, I interpreted this as the company HQ verbally passing targeting info to the section HQ, who in turn passed it on to the mortars (which, due to their position, didn't have LOS to the company HQ).

You got it. In the full game version of this scenario, the mortars have halftracks with radios positioned near them, so no need to move anything around.

[Vinnart]

[quote=akd;

Also, three rules were added to the game that allow more flexibility in the use of subordinate units that are cutoff from C2 from their normal superior HQ (either because of separation from the HQ or destruction of the HQ). However, none of these effect display of the normal C2 chain shown in the lower left.

1. A unit that is cutoff from its own HQ but is physically near (voice/visual range) of another HQ can gain "in command" status, but this is for morale and relative spotting (sharing information on targets that they can see) purposes only. It does not alter the standard chain of command display in the lower left, nor plug an on-map indirect fire unit back into the radio net so it can receive indirect fire mission requests.

Example, I moved the Charlie Co. HQ right next to the mortar team that is out of contact with its platoon HQ. The mortar team now shows "in command" icons (visual and voice), but the breaks in the C2 chain have not been altered. The mortar team is still not in contact with the Platoon HQ and the Platoon HQ is still not in contact with the Company HQ.

[Dietrich]

akd,

Could you explain why a squad can be out of C2 to both its parent platoon and company HQs but still (according to the UI, anyway) be in C2 to battalion? I overlooked this in CMSF, since I figured a unit with a radio could theoretically have contact with other units with working radios, which could include the battalion HQ (even if in any given scenario it's actually off-map). Or is just a UI oversight, and a unit with no comms ought to have an "x" for each level in the chain of command?

[Peregrine]

This is the critical paragraph from the manual.

In a nutshell it is a chain and as soon as a unit is NOT in command of it's immediate superior things are less than ideal. While a lowly inf sqd may have C2 to a Coy Cmd only it isn't the Coy Cmd job to personally manage individual SQDs. Everthing in the UI will be red "x"s showing this.

FROM THE MANUAL

"What this means in game terms is that units can effectively only trace command-

and-control to their immediately-superior HQs.

Higher HQs may fulfill this role only to a limited extent. If a squad or team is

out of contact with its immediate superior (usually a platoon HQ) then its

company or battalion HQ may provide voice and close visual contact, but not

radio or distant-visual contact. This simulates that a higher HQ can't babysit

a large number of units more than one level lower in the organization, and it

means that higher HQs can't be used in a gamey way to make platoon HQs

unnecessary, but they can step in and provide command-and-control in a

limited radius in emergency situations." Page 97 and 98 goes into more detail.

There is a slight disconnect with how C2 works with indirect fire so I would go to the mortaring thread for more info about indirect firing and C2. Again there are no firing ranges yet so "daisy-chaining" mortar team to Coy HQ via intermediaries may or may not be a good idea but it can be done.

[akd]

akd,

Could you explain why a squad can be out of C2 to both its parent platoon and company HQs but still (according to the UI, anyway) be in C2 to battalion? I overlooked this in CMSF, since I figured a unit with a radio could theoretically have contact with other units with working radios, which could include the battalion HQ (even if in any given scenario it's actually off-map). Or is just a UI oversight, and a unit with no comms ought to have an "x" for each level in the chain of command?

No, the lower left shows the status of the chain of command going up the chain from subordinate to superior HQ, not the status of one subordinate to all the HQs in the formation. In the example you give, the UI is showing that the squad is out of c2 with its HQ (platoon), that the platoon is out of c2 with it's HQ (company), but that the company is in c2 with its HQ (battalion).