Operational Game to go with CMBN

[Broadsword56]

Well, if somebody can lobby the programmer(s?) at Panther/Matrix Games' Command Operations: Battles from the Bulge (CO:BFTB, rated as one of the best Operational wargames on the PC - see product page at http://www.matrixgames.com/products/377/details/Command.Ops:.Battles.from.the.Bulge. ) to try and approach Battlefront a-la-CMC style with a business plan... who knows.

Maybe Bil Hardenberger can broker such a deal between BFC & Panther games to co-operate to make some (very) basic changes to both games so that CMBN can work (data wise) and they share in the profits of such an programming endavour? If not, at least some 3rd party hacks can try their hand at marrying the 2 sets of data to some degree to give tactical orders to CMBN PBEM. I would certainly buy such a game/concept, even at $100+. Maybe we wishing for such an idea are completely in the minority and not even worth the financial trouble to make it work commercially?

Everything starts with a dream. Bringing 2 companies together and making a 3rd work it out, or themselves in a limited data capacity, knowing the pitfalls of CMC... who knows?

Using BFTB as the op layer really would be ideal -- because everything would be computerized and BFTB really does the op level better than anyone. But it seems the major work all really exists on the BFTB side -- to find a way to make that game stop at the right moment when a battle is about to happen (since it runs in pausable continuous time rather than turns), allow an export of all the map location and unit data so CMBN players can make their battle scenario, and then have a way (this is the real sticking point) to get battle results and unit locations BACK into the existing BFTB scenario without creating a new scenario from scratch every time. Players with modding experience over on the BFTB forum that I've asked about this just say "It can't be done" and leave it at that. And I've seen no official interest or post in response from the BFTB designers, either. So it still sounds like a pipe dream -- unless Bil knows something the rest of us don't (he seems to have been hinting at something lately).

[Bil Hardenberger]

-- unless Bil knows something the rest of us don't (he seems to have been hinting at something lately).

The only thing I do know is that we used a system utilizing the two games for a meta campaign once before (albeit CMx1 and COTA) and it worked beautifully. IN fact I think it was one of the few META campaigns that actually came to a conclusion.

We are currently in the process of rewriting the rules and fine tuning the procedures for the next version. I will make a post when we are ready to recruit for players, GMs, and map makers. Back then though we could use the CM map creation tool one of the forum members created for CMx1 (that could create a map in CM from an image with different layers), to facilitate the creation of maps within CM. I have outlined the process in an earlier post in this thread.

Maybe Bil Hardenberger can broker such a deal/approach between BFC & Panther games to co-operate to make some very basic changes to both games so that CMBN can work (data wise)

That will never happen. Dave O'Conner (programmer of BFTB) is just too busy with other projects and development of his own games.

Bil

[Bil Hardenberger]

Oops sorry, that post I referred to was in a different thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=95057&highlight=campaign&page=4

Look at the previous page also in that thread, The_Capt outlines some of the play concepts and problems that need attention for any such endeavor.

[WineCape]

Well, 50% of the matter is this: If, given current CMx2 data and they way the program relates to these unit data, and give Hunter's CMC approach NOW in creating an operational overly, would it NOW work, or is CMBN data sets STILL not capable of sharing it in any meaningful way with a 2nd program, even with a rewrite of same basic .exe program between the two, as was done between CMBB/CMC?

[Wodin]

Using BFTB as the op layer really would be ideal -- because everything would be computerized and BFTB really does the op level better than anyone. But it seems the major work all really exists on the BFTB side -- to find a way to make that game stop at the right moment when a battle is about to happen (since it runs in pausable continuous time rather than turns), allow an export of all the map location and unit data so CMBN players can make their battle scenario, and then have a way (this is the real sticking point) to get battle results and unit locations BACK into the existing BFTB scenario without creating a new scenario from scratch every time. Players with modding experience over on the BFTB forum that I've asked about this just say "It can't be done" and leave it at that. And I've seen no official interest or post in response from the BFTB designers, either. So it still sounds like a pipe dream -- unless Bil knows something the rest of us don't (he seems to have been hinting at something lately).

Still can't see how BFTB can work inconjuction with CMBN?? Really don't get it at all....once the untis meet in BftB hwo on earth do you after the CmBN battle take that info and get it into BftB?? For me they are totally inmcopatible...also BftB battles can be big...way bigger than anythign CMBN can do...I suppose you could make small scenarios but I fail to see the point...now how about using this??

http://www.gmtgames.com/p-213-the-battle-for-normandy.aspx

Now this will be the perfect tool to use...I own a copy..unplayed and unpunched but boy is it big and does it look great..also an expansion due out soon..

You really need a boardgame rather than a PC game and play it using Vassel...that way you can easly adapt the CMBN results.

[WineCape]

That will never happen. Dave O'Conner (programmer of BFTB) is just too busy with other projects and development of his own games.

Bil

Heh, I believe that some say Jesus will never come too. Alas, hope springs eternal.

Would certainly want to be involved with your next meta campaign in the works Bil. Even as a lowly platoon commander.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Winecape, with our current ruleset and loss and supply tracking, and with our new resupply and replacement system we are not going to need to transfer ANY data from BFTB to make this workable. All the data will reside in our special logging system, which by the way allows for cross attachment tracking between Companies etc. as well. BFTB will ONLY be used for Operational movement and interdiction fire from arty and aircraft...

BFTB will be played in one hour Slices: within that Slice if two opposing Companies bump into each other in BFTB (ie start to exchange fire) the GM will generate an Action and a CMBN battle will be built. For the next Slice, the GM will rebuild the scenario to account for the results of any actions... this will be easier than it sounds actually..

The key is our Team Tracking system that I prefer to keep private for now.

Bil

[Bil Hardenberger]

Heh, I believe that some say Jesus will never come too. Alas, hope springs eternal.

Would certainly want to be involved with your next meta campaign in the works Bil. Even as a lowly platoon commander.

I'll be in touch via e-mail regarding this.

[Wodin]

gain why not use the GMT boardgame? So much easier surely?