Stratagem

[aesopo]

Let's start of thread that we think optimizes strategy for both sides:

Central Powers:

Germany opening moves-Schlieffen plan- but bypassing Holland (they give income anyway) and advance as much as possible through the northern gap. Stabilize lines then shift east to deal with Russia -

Austro-Hungary should be having a withholding action on the eastern front until German reserves come through -

No calvary/infantry exploitations without support as we have seen how easy it can be surrounded and destroyed.

Get the Ottomans to join as soon as possible -

Naval actions must wait and bide time until there are openings- subs already out raid what they can.

Entente- France must rush north to the Belgian gap to try to slow down the Germans -and start building forces for counter-attacks. Naval blockade of the adriatic sea.

Britain expeditionary forces to France and prepare the mid-east for eventual Ottoman entry -naval blockade of the North Sea.

Russia- rush into the eastern front as much as possible before Central Powers can organize a defensive/offensive line. Try to exploit Prussian border weakness and try to advance into Austro-Hungary as much as possible. Ready border line with Ottomans to invade thru the Caucus and possibly link-up with Brit forces.

[Arinvald]

I'm keen to try a Molke the Elder plan and go all in against Russia right out of the starting gate with both Germany and Austria throwing everything at them at once. Let France break her teeth against German defenses in the West and maybe Britain will remain neutral for a bit. The Ottomans will also be able to offer some help in the Caucuses fairly soon. Once Russia is knocked out by mid 1915; hopefully; then move West. Austria can then finish off Serbia with Ottoman and Bulgarian help and hopefully Italy will behave. If Russia can somehow withstand this onslaught then the Central powers are royally screwed.:eek:

[Jestre]

I'm keen to try a Molke the Elder plan and go all in against Russia right out of the starting gate with both Germany and Austria throwing everything at them at once. Let France break her teeth against German defenses in the West and maybe Britain will remain neutral for a bit. The Ottomans will also be able to offer some help in the Caucuses fairly soon. Once Russia is knocked out by mid 1915; hopefully; then move West. Austria can then finish off Serbia with Ottoman and Bulgarian help and hopefully Italy will behave. If Russia can somehow withstand this onslaught then the Central powers are royally screwed.:eek:

This is exactly what I was thinking of going with for the first game. Be very interesting to see what the AI will do with Belgian neutrality intact and no assault on France.

[Arinvald]

This is exactly what I was thinking of going with for the first game. Be very interesting to see what the AI will do with Belgian neutrality intact and no assault on France.

I wonder if it is possible that France might just decide to invade Belgium in a mirror Schlieffen plan. I know the French had considered such an option before the war. I wonder what effect this would have on a neutral Great Britain? Permanent neutrality? I'm sure that it is not even possible that GB would come to Belgium's defense against France.:eek: I am fairly confident that they would just go with the standard Plan 17 and throw everything against the Alsace/Lorraine area.

My main question is how the Russian AI would respond to the avalanche of steel being thrown at them. Will it be able to switch from an offensive posture to a fighting withdrawl in a bid for survival while hoping that France can somehow achieve a breakthrough in the West? I wonder how italy would view all this? So many questions.

[Jestre]

My main question is how the Russian AI would respond to the avalanche of steel being thrown at them. Will it be able to switch from an offensive posture to a fighting withdrawl in a bid for survival while hoping that France can somehow achieve a breakthrough in the West? I wonder how italy would view all this? So many questions.

My main question is how long will it take to break the Russian NM to the point of surrender. Once that is done will it then be possible to redeploy those units to the western front and then execute a Schlieffen type offensive in say 1916 or 1917??? If Belgium remains neutral and the western front has remained pretty much static in the Alsace/Lorraine sector that would be a possibility....

[lettowvorbeck]

I was told earlier that only the historical 1914 deployments for the armies come with the game (and I've seen no indication that free deployment is possible -- that would be a great feature for PBEM). So , in order to do the Russia First plan properly, one would really have to create a new scenario. Either that or laboriously redeploy from west to east after the war has already begun, thus destroying surprise.

[aesopo]

We have to take a look at eh scripts to see how UK/USA would react to this. Germany can still hold the west and focus on Russia. But a real short defensive line for Germany would be ideal if Belgium is not attacked. Politically, this would and should be very unappeasing for the UK and USA. If this is so, so it would look like the Elder plan would be more cost-ratio effective and would give great chances for Russia collapsing. The other drawback, France can sit put and ready for Germany's delayed Belgium swing. But I can see German troops in the mideast kicking out UK forces and just dive into France at all cost before the US arrives.

[Arinvald]

I was told earlier that only the historical 1914 deployments for the armies come with the game (and I've seen no indication that free deployment is possible -- that would be a great feature for PBEM). So , in order to do the Russia First plan properly, one would really have to create a new scenario. Either that or laboriously redeploy from west to east after the war has already begun, thus destroying surprise.

Well that will definitely put the brakes on any Drang Nacht Osten plan I might have. No way I would attempt redeployment after the war has started. Looking forward to a possible scenario that would allow a choice for deployment. I assume this also means that Austria must set up for a drive on Serbia first?

[xwormwood]

Arinvald, i bet that the campaign variant you are looking for will soon enough be avaiable from one of the modders, so don't worry.

Regarding Serbia i feel the urge to point to the recently published AAR turns.

Under turn 1 you can find these lines, which should comfort you at least a bit:

"...When asked, I opted to send the Austro-Hungarian General von Bohm-Ermolli and the IV and VII Corps to face the Russians in Galicia instead of deploying them against Serbia. The will weaken me a bit against the Serbs, but I’ll try to take Belgrade nevertheless, together with as much of Serbia as possible."

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1768&Itemid=418

[lettowvorbeck]

Yes, it would!

As for A-H setup, I believe you are asked in-game whether you want to send the force that the Empire historically waffled over (I can't remember what it was officially called) to the Serbian or Galician fronts.

[lettowvorbeck]

I am sure someone could come up with a mod that would offer a first turn decision point offering East vs. West main effort options (of course, it would represent months of prior planning) for the Central Powers (Perhaps even a different one for every major power). Designating it as PBEM only would eliminate the need for AI scripting. If this is even possible, I have no idea as I have no experience with this game series at all.

[Bill101]

It's the Austro-Hungarian 2nd Army that you're referring to.

There are a number of decisions players can make regarding mobilization, of which this is one.

I do think that it may be worth trying the eastern approach because if Germany doesn't declare war on Belgium then the German army in the west only has a small frontier to defend. But at a later date it may be hard advancing into France because the French and British could build up a strong defense line themselves before you attack. It would definitely be interesting to try out, and there are lots of possible strategies available in this game, of which this is just one.

[Jestre]

It's the Austro-Hungarian 2nd Army that you're referring to.

There are a number of decisions players can make regarding mobilization, of which this is one.

I do think that it may be worth trying the eastern approach because if Germany doesn't declare war on Belgium then the German army in the west only has a small frontier to defend. But at a later date it may be hard advancing into France because the French and British could build up a strong defense line themselves before you attack. It would definitely be interesting to try out, and there are lots of possible strategies available in this game, of which this is just one.

Ahh but while subduing Russia the Germans can be putting research into the offensive and maybe the AI would move British and French forces into Belgium upon invasion..... certainly will be worth trying at some point!!!

[Arinvald]

Arinvald, i bet that the campaign variant you are looking for will soon enough be avaiable from one of the modders, so don't worry.

Regarding Serbia i feel the urge to point to the recently published AAR turns.

Under turn 1 you can find these lines, which should comfort you at least a bit:

"...When asked, I opted to send the Austro-Hungarian General von Bohm-Ermolli and the IV and VII Corps to face the Russians in Galicia instead of deploying them against Serbia. The will weaken me a bit against the Serbs, but I’ll try to take Belgrade nevertheless, together with as much of Serbia as possible."

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1768&Itemid=418

Yes I read the AAR a few days ago and had forgotten about that option. Thanks for reminding me.

If Germany chooses not to invade Belgium or invade France how much will this delay the British because that is critical in any plan that deviates from Schlieffen? Could a six month delay be relied upon. Would this also greatly affect the chance that Italy might delay or even stay neutral for the duration?

[Bill101]

The wheels were already rapidly turning for Britain to enter the war when Belgium was invaded, and the invasion just provided the British government with a great way of explaining the decision to enter the war, a propaganda coup in fact because it was used as an explanation for the rest of the war.

So, not invading Belgium won't actually delay the UK's entrance into the war, but the British army, despite being very good (and their I Corps is the most experienced formation in the game) is so small that it probably won't be a great threat for a while. It's still worth a try because if you can dig in well then the Entente will struggle to advance into Germany, hopefully not succeeding until you're ready to deal with them!

[wlape3]

I agree. The German invasion of Belgium was merely an excuse for the Brits to enter the war. At best, a neutral Belgium would only delay the Brits a little until they found a suitable incident.

An interesting situation might be if the French were extremely successful against the Germans. Would the British hold back to avoid French supremacy reverting to their traditional balance of power approach or would their fear of the German navy cause them to jump on the band wagon?

[Arinvald]

It was a fairly tough fight to convince the British Cabinet to approve a role in the war and threatened to cause the fall of the Government. Of course the German invasion of Belgium swept away most opposition. I think it would have been difficult to convince the British public and Cabinet to jump into the war without the invasion of Belgium. I do believe that Britain would have eventually joined the Entente but a delay of a few months seems reasonable. At least long enough to see how Germany did againsy Russia. Assuming that Russia was being handled roughly Britain would have to eventually join.

It seems that Schlieffen it is so I will plan accordingly.

[aesopo]

The Elder plan is presenting more of a viable option to link up with the Ottomans and creating play in the mideast. Once Russia is subdued all options are open to the Central Powers- and the Entente has to sit and wait! Definitely CP have the initiative from the get go. If France were ever to invade Belgium, this would have serious political repurcussions for the US to join and also cause other neutral countries to also shift closer to the CP. Germany does not have the resources to advance well deep into France while trying to hold the east. Belgium has signed a 1839 alliance with Britain and how should the UK react to the French invasion? It would probably not declare war on France, but may institute a blockade of France or just strictly maintain neutrality - there was already fervent opposition to declare war in 1914 in the UK (leading to the near collapse of the governing party) but the German invasion of Belgium swept that away. Invasion of Belgium by France is a big no GO. By 1915, Russia would be near collapse -freeing Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, and German forces to deal with the Entente. The Schieffen plan would not work as France and the UK already has hindsight into that plan and would react accordingly to stop the advance. Russia is a great menace that threatens a wide swath of territory and resources while the French could be bottled up in a small front. Concentration of force and cost-benefit ratio comparison leads me to support the Elder plan. More resources and MPPs you have, then you are more likely to win even in an attrition battle. I can see France and later UK will do demonstrations in the mid-east and try to activate Italy to create another southern front to relieve the pressure on Russia. The Schleiffen had many ifs to make it work - surprise, slow Russia mobilization, non-reactive French and UK forces - just look at the current AAR - Germany is already getting bogged down in the West and losing troops it could not afford to lose while Russia is getting scarier by every turn while not being able to subdue Serbia and losing valuable Austrian troops. The AAR reads like an almost repeat of WWI. Begium does not have to be invaded to widen the front - keep it small in the west to conserve forces and throw the kitchen sink East - the rewards and good possibility of success are really great.

[aesopo]

I am assuming that there is a scenario to reflect this alternative plan. If not, it it is easy to modify with the editor to shift forces East.

[aesopo]

I wish they would post the scripts to see how closely they did follow history.

[xwormwood]

Just a little free strategy advise:

get presents for your wife, girl friend or simply for the love of your life.

SC WW1 will make you neglect all these precious people you care about, and sooner than later you will find yourself in trouble because of this, so TODAY might be a good point to ask them about what they fancy most AND TO GET IT IMMEDIATLY.

At least I know of a person (and its not me, i'm single) who has already reached a point where his better side stated "that she hates this stupid new game".

Believe me, your loved ones will notice that you suddenly sit all the time for hours in front of your computer ...

[Brian the Dane]

I've already warned my wife, about the release of this game.

So planning ahead, I bought her a Mercedes to keep her smiling.

Not! I can't afford that!

Besides, I'll just make up later. Thank god my PC is portable - I'm working late, hon. No, Really. God I'm stressed! too. On all fronts! It's the triple entente all over again! Be home as soon as I can.

[tommyguns]

I know partisans were in use on the Western Front and in Serbian Territory, but I don't recall reading about there being any partisan activity in Italian Front or the Eastern Front (Russia). I could be wrong, so does anybody know anything different???

[tommyguns]

As far as my Stratagem, I agree with Jestre and Arinvald!! My question is how good are the rail system (I think it depends on the country), how far in 1turn can you go using the rail system, and do get you a choice in placement with a few of the German Army Units in the beginning? If I remember correctly, I read that the bulk of the German Army was already at the Western Front at the beginning of the war, with Reservist still being activated.

[Arinvald]

Unfortunately I don't think a Russia first strategy will be nearly as likely to work since the German army will already be deployed with the assumption of Schlieffen being the plan. Britain will be knocking at the door very soon with or without a Belgium invasion and the cost and time required to mvoe the German army across Germany will probably be prohibitive. I will still try to do it but it might require waiting for a mod that allows free setup. I have always been intrigued by the possibility of a Russia first strategy.