Pešadija Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yes, as if Haiti, Chile and company wasn't enough. It's not like plate tectonics go on vacation out of compassion, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 JonS and SO live in Wellington, IIRC, so they are not in any danger. But I think SO might have relatives in Christchurch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pešadija Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Said so in other post, but for now no bad news came to him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Well, I am saying, a country SHOULD look out for its interests... Agreed completely. But I think we need to become a whole lot wiser in identifying what our true interests are. And that begins with the realization that the nation's interests are not necessarily those of its wealthiest elite. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Mossadeq 1953. The USA felt he was getting a bit too commie. But yes, it basically set up the mother of all hypocrises. Let's not forget their other infamous intervention against a democratically elected government. Anyone remember Allende and Chile? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d'%C3%A9tat The U.S. intervened and ensured that the wonderful humanitarian by the name of Pinochet was installed as dictator in a bloody coup in the early 70's. That turned out terrifically well for the Chilean population. Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Let's not forget their other infamous intervention against a democratically elected government. Anyone remember Allende and Chile? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d'%C3%A9tat The U.S. intervened and ensured that the wonderful humanitarian by the name of Pinochet was installed as dictator in a bloody coup in the early 70's. That turned out terrifically well for the Chilean population. Regards KR Yes there are plenty of examples, but the Iranian one is particularly damaging because it still resonates today in a region where American troops are in harm's way. Guantanamo detention was a similar issue of "Do as I say, not as I do" that was a virtual recruiting ad for extremists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Yes there are plenty of examples, but the Iranian one is particularly damaging because it still resonates today in a region where American troops are in harm's way. Guantanamo detention was a similar issue of "Do as I say, not as I do" that was a virtual recruiting ad for extremists. Unfortunately, the US allowed the terrorists to turn Guantanamo into a PR disaster...what we should have done was to fight back, showing side-by-side footage of prisoners in Guantanamo, beside prisoners in every other country that was complaining...that probably would have instantly ended the argument, as they were eating better, resting better, being entertained better, than I was in the field, than millions of non-criminal Americans, and than prisoners in every other place in the world...but all we did was allow the story to swell, our own fault. The above reference to Chile, WAS one of the worst things the USA has done, I believe...must have made sense to SOMEONE when it was done, but now, it just seems idiotic. I agree that in general the foreign policy has been not in agreement with the stated words.."You can be democratic,we want you to elect who you want, as long as it is this guy.." But in general also, they are looking out for American interests, which is what we pay them and elect them to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 They are not looking out for my interests when they make the world a more hostile and dangerous place to live in. There are plenty enough bad guys and nutjobs in the world already without our going around and seeding the ground with more. I do not demand nor expect a perfect foreign policy, but I do certainly wish that the more egregious mistakes of the last 60 years had simply been avoided. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I agree with you Michael. However, on the other side of the coin, sometimes the decision makers possess information not publicly available to the average citizen... If you knew that airplane A was on a suicide mission to hit the world trade center, you could shoot it down and save the WTC...but then there will always be the nutjobs in your own citizenry who would never believe your reason, and other theories would come forward about your "real reason"..or you can let it hit, thus proving your own information accurate, but then if someone ever found that you could have stopped it, you are stuck answering the nutjob theories of why you did not. The only real point of this hypothetical example is that it is not as easy being the decision maker, as everyone in country may think...and combine that with the fact that most times, the decisions have to be made, before you even get all the facts 100% right, and then the people judging that decision in the history books, judge based on facts that you did not have when you had to make the decision. This is also why I cut our current president a LOT more slack than many do. It is not an easy job, and really, not a job I would ever want. I also believe Mubarak did what he did, "for the good of his country" as he saw it, he served his country as an officer in the Air Force, and likely possesses still a love for Egypt, even if most of us agree that the actions were in fact wrong and not helpful to Egypt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think it is right that politicians should own up to it being a difficult world and the basis on on what limited information they sometimes act. Unfortuantely there is a symptom that they think they should be God-like. I suppose for the simple-minded to learn that everything is not blackandwhite is too hard to handle - and as these people make up a big chunk of the electorate ....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Agree Diesel...hard for them to say "Damn, guys, I got it wrong because I didn't know about xxxxxxxx " When in everything else, they want us to believe they know everything haha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The only real point of this hypothetical example is that it is not as easy being the decision maker, as everyone in country may think...and combine that with the fact that most times, the decisions have to be made, before you even get all the facts 100% right, and then the people judging that decision in the history books, judge based on facts that you did not have when you had to make the decision. I agree. As the saying goes, hindsight is 20-20. In the examples I gave—Iran in '53, Guatemala in '54, Vietnam in '65—I've often wondered what advice I would have given the President if I had been called to. All of those misjudgments were strongly influenced by things that people believed about the times they were living in, such as the Domino Theory, which turned out not to be as awesomely true as they had feared. But would I have been different in their place? Not so sure. If I hadn't become a hippy, I might have gone to work for the Rand Corporation, and who knows where that might have led? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pešadija Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 A hippy? You, M.E.? A tree hugging, wolkswagen riding, pot fueled, field frolicking, free loving hippie? OH SO MUCH I pray, tell. Every topic deserves to be derailed in favor of more details about that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 A hippy? You' date=' M.E.? A tree hugging, wolkswagen riding, pot fueled, field frolicking, free loving hippie? OH SO MUCH I pray, tell. Every topic deserves to be derailed in favor of more details about that.[/quote'] I was pretty much thinking the exact same thing, somehow Michael just doesn't come across as a hippie haha 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pešadija Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Let's unite our effort in inappropriate nagging, then! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I was pretty much thinking the exact same thing, somehow Michael just doesn't come across as a hippie haha I have been many things in my life and Joe Flower Child was one of the more satisfying ones. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That's nothing guys. When Emrys was young, he was a druid. Whose idea do you think Stonehenge was? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 One of his grandkids I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 haha.. I would have pegged him @ ...mm..maybe mid 40s? Am I that far off? lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 No word from JonS lately. Really hope he and his family are well, and feeling really like an A-hole for some things I said above. Reminds me why normally I won't actually sit down at the forum with a drink in one hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 No word from JonS lately. He may be busy at the moment doing rescue work. Power could be out in some locations as well. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Jon is in the artillery. Sure hope they're not using him and his gear for rescues! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well, there's nothing like a few dozen kilos of TNT for heavy earth moving. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pešadija Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 As i understanding, this sidetracking means there will be no clarification whatsoever about flower power? Ouuuuwww. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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