NATO: German sniper spotting performance

[Russkly]

Hi.

I've been watching tanit's excellent video walkthroughs of the CMSF NATO German campaign, and I know he mentions this issue in his commentary.

I have tried to search the forum on this topic to see if it's already been dealt with, but I couldn't find anything. Apologies up front if I've missed something.

Without going into spoiler-type details, I am surprised at the generally poor spotting performance of the German Gebirgsjaeger sniper teams (playing on 'Elite' level - don't believe that the level changes this, however).

Some of these teams are 'crack' or 'elite' and yet, even when given the same positions as, say, FOO/JSF/HQ teams, they fail to spot the enemy positions that these latter spot.

Having been an artillery officer, and therefore about as far from being a sniper as can be militarily (lol), I would have thought that elite sniper teams would be those to spot enemy units first given the same conditions as other friendly units.

That's what they're trained and equipped for, AFAIK.

In one particular mission there are quite a few of these teams assigned, and they can enjoy excellent fields of fire, but they are much less effective than I would have hoped. I end up having to use JSF teams to bring in expensive arty simply because they are the only ones, who can see the enemy; even though they share the position with a sniper team!!!!!!

Anybody else experiencing this, or am I just using them wrongly?

R

[Erwin]

Yes, this has been discussed/complained about for a long time.

One camp says that snipers have had specialized training and therefore should be much more effective at hiding, observing and shooting.

The other claims that snipers are like regular folks and if you want them to perform better you simply kick up their experience level to Crack or Elite.

I believe in the first premise, but you can complain all you like...

[abneo3sierra]

I have not noticed a lack of them spotting, yet, at least. I do know that giving them a targeting arc helps a lot. As for hiding, I agree with Erwin,they should be much better at it. But I h ave not paid much attention to how good mine are. I do know that in games I have played AGAINST sniper teams, they have been a challenge to spot and apply firepower to, even with 2-3 squads specifically searching for them on foot and 1 IFV/AFV backing those squads up...in several of these cases, have lost have lost 6 or 7 men before we caught the sniper. In all of those cases, the sniper side used terrain and/or buildings to their great benefit. I am thinking that as the attacker(which generally the German campaign has the Bundeswehr in the role of...it is much harder (as in real life) to take advantage of terrain,etc, in situations where you must be the force advancing.

[Russkly]

Interesting comments; thank you.

For me it's not the snipers' absolute performance that irks me; it's their relative performance.

What I mean is this: you have a sniper team, a platoon HQ, and a JSF/FOO team on the roof of a 4-storey building.

Enemy infantry section some 400-500m away in a building opens fire on some of your troops elsewhere and is identified by the JSF team and the platoon HQ.

On trying to engage with the sniper team,, which should cause real problems at that range, it transpires that it cannot see the enemy infantry.

I tried changing facing, etc. so that the sniper team would gain LOS, but, in reality, the HQ or JSF teams would simply inform the sniper of the enemy location, and that would be that. Even if the sniper team hadn't identified the enemy first, which they might not, since a lot of spotting comes down to where you happen to be looking when the enemy opens up, they would certainly be able to gain LOS from the same position as other teams with LOS. Or not?

These sniper teams are all 'Crack' or 'Elite' btw, so they are about as good as it gets infantry-wise in CMSF.

I'll try to mock up some scenarios and take screenies or video (never done either before!), because their ineffectiveness is disturbing.

R

[Lanzfeld]

I ,for one, am really really really glad to get away from modern era (CMSF) and back into older stuff (CM:BN). All the whiz bang high tech gizmos that we may or may not have specs on will not clutter up the "realistic" experience. So many threads on spotting and optics (guilty) I am ready for a change.

Not to say we wont complain about stuff in CM:BN but it just seems like there are more "basic ingredients" that are harder to mess up. Snipers and the modern spotting/camo/ect is a good example.

[abneo3sierra]

I ,for one, am really really really glad to get away from modern era (CMSF) and back into older stuff (CM:BN). All the whiz bang high tech gizmos that we may or may not have specs on will not clutter up the "realistic" experience. So many threads on spotting and optics (guilty) I am ready for a change.

Not to say we wont complain about stuff in CM:BN but it just seems like there are more "basic ingredients" that are harder to mess up. Snipers and the modern spotting/camo/ect is a good example.

It is true that 65+ years of knowledge on something gives us more precise detail than 3-5 yrs knowledge on weapons,much of the detail of which is still classified in many cases. I still enjoy the modern, but also very much look forward to the return to WW2 theater.

[meade95]

With CMSF-1 going to the way back burner - It would be nice if BFC would tweak up Sniper Teams overall observation ratings / performance - As this has been a years long discussion / request now.... which seems many are not happy with -

And the idea of tweaking up status to "elite" just doesn't seem to do enough (in many customers views). Perhaps an additional tweak up in ratings above where it stands now (for elite) could finally happen with the last patch of 1.32?

This would have no negative effect to users - As only those wishing / believing their should be a performance increase for such units would then use this "elite" status.

[Dietrich]

To directly address what the OP brought up:

It seems to me that German snipers not only don't seem to spot as readily as other infantry units, but they also seem disinclined to open fire on spotted enemy units. Of all the scenarios (including those in campaigns) I've played with German forces, the only one in which my sniper teams have done much shooting is "The Alamo".