fire missions and CAS query

[Javolenus]

Hi There,

I wanted to ask: in 'real life' what's the minimum distance a friendly unit can be from an incoming fire mission or CAS request? For example, if a hard-pressed unit spots enemy units 200m away, would it be feasible to request artillery or air support? Or would such an option be too risky due to a possible blue-on-blue? Basically I just want to know what the 'real world' guidelines are for this. Many thanks in advance for replies.

[Boche]

in theory it is supposed to be 500 m (maybe more), but it is not always followed, I know of a fire mission that was targeted at almost 50 meteres from a british unit in afghanistan, also one that was targeted on their position and they had to run the hell out of there!

[Javolenus]

Hi boche and many thanks for the swift reply. Mmm, interesting! What prompted the question was a scenario I'm working on where the command section of a UK light infantry company is pinned down on the outskirts of a Syrian town and has to exit west to safety. The map is urban 400x400. I wasn't sure whether it was viable/realistic to give Blue artillery/CAS options. Sounds like the options should be there but used at the player's risk. In the scenario, Syrian mech infantry arrive halfway through and I was looking for a viable counter for Blue without adding Javelin teams etc. The idea behind the scenario is to exfil the town with fewer than 20 per cent casualties - and with no points for enemy kills.

[Boche]

Hi boche and many thanks for the swift reply. Mmm, interesting! What prompted the question was a scenario I'm working on where the command section of a UK light infantry company is pinned down on the outskirts of a Syrian town and has to exit west to safety. The map is urban 400x400. I wasn't sure whether it was viable/realistic to give Blue artillery/CAS options. Sounds like the options should be there but used at the player's risk. In the scenario, Syrian mech infantry arrive halfway through and I was looking for a viable counter for Blue without adding Javelin teams etc. The idea behind the scenario is to exfil the town with fewer than 20 per cent casualties - and with no points for enemy kills.

sure that would work whenever you finish it send it my way id love to play it!

[Javolenus]

Hi boche and thanks again for the reply - really appreciate it. I'd be happy to send the scenario along when it's done, including all the necessary files for further customisation. I wanted to do a scenario with a simple goal but several ways of achieving it. I also wanted a scenario where you have to be cautious - where, if you make a wrong move, there's a real chance you'll get wiped off the map. Anyway, thanks again and all the best.

[akd]

Hi There,

I wanted to ask: in 'real life' what's the minimum distance a friendly unit can be from an incoming fire mission or CAS request? For example, if a hard-pressed unit spots enemy units 200m away, would it be feasible to request artillery or air support? Or would such an option be too risky due to a possible blue-on-blue? Basically I just want to know what the 'real world' guidelines are for this. Many thanks in advance for replies.

The minimum safe distance from friendly forces depends on the weapons system. This might be outdated but probably works as a general description:

The term "danger close" is included in the call for fire when there are friendly troops or positions within a prescribed distance of the target, specifically 600 meters for artillery or mortars and 750 meters for naval gunfire. This is simply a warning and not a restriction to both the maneuver commander and the fire direction center to take proper precautions. Minimum safe distance (MSD) is defined as the distance in meters from the intended center of impact at which a specific degree of risk and vulnerability will not be exceeded with a 99% assurance. MSDs allow for the maximum use of indirect fire while ensuring the safety of friendly troops. MSD's and not "danger close" distances should be used when in close contact or as a planning figure when echeloning fires. Minimum safe distances are computed by adding the maximum pattern radius plus three circular error probable. The 1,2,3,4,5 "rule of thumb" is a good guide. This translates to:

100 meters - M203 & 40mm

200 meters- 60mm mortars

300 meters - 81mm

400 meters - 105 mm

500 meters - 155 mm/naval gunfire

Nothing contained in MSDs precludes the furnishing of close fire support to maneuver combat elements. The supported maneuver commander submitting the fire request is responsible for the decision to call for fires when those fires are less than minimum safe distances to friendly positions. The warning "danger close" is given by the requester to indicate friendly troops are within danger close distances to the target. A recommended techniques is to initiate fires at MSDs and to then "creep" fires onto the target.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/indirect-comp.htm

[Erwin]

Thank you... useful info... and great research site.

[Javolenus]

Hi akd,

And many thanks for the detailed info - very useful indeed. I really appreciate your taking time to post this.