Upgrading VERY shortly--like within the week.

[Maximus]

I'm planning on going with a

ASUS KT-133 chipset motherboard, can't recall the board name right off hand.

1.2 GHz T-Bird

256 MB of PC133 SDRAM

64MB DDR Geforce 2 V7700 GTS

40 GB HDD

How's this for a system for CM2 and beyond?

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For your dream car click here.

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And for all you Hamster Lovers out there, check this out! Kitty, this one's for you!

[Ellros]

That system should work like a well-oiled machine for CM and beyond. AT least for a while anyway.

I'm using a Abit KT133 mobo

1 gz T-bird

512mb PC133 RAM

a simple Riva TNT2 video card (could be better I know, but it was the best I could afford at the time)

50GB hard drive space (over 2 drives)

You definitely have the video and CPU to make CM run like a dream.

Be sure though to maximize your cooling. Get a case with space for several fans and lots of room for air circulation. Maybe even a fan for the video card itself.

[Tanks a Lot]

Sounds like a great system. I always get Asus motherboards. They never give me a problem. I also have the 32MB Asus V7700 GTS video board. Stable as a rock.

[Freak]

Maximus you should get a Mac

Just kidding of course

[Wolfe]

Maximus wrote:

ASUS KT-133 chipset motherboard, can't recall the board name right off hand.

The following assumes you're referring to the older KT-133 chipset which only supports a maximum of 100MHz Front Side Bus speed. The KT-133A supports up to 133MHz (excluding overclocking, of course).

Doesn't Asus have a KT133A-based board that supports a 133MHz FSB? Yep. It's the A7V133. Combine this with a 1.2GHz T-Bird that supports the 133MHz bus speed, and you'll get a bit more punch than one based on the older A7V with 100MHz FSB and a 100MHz-based 1.2GHz chip. Might be worth looking into as the price difference should be minimal.

- Chris

[Wolfe]

Hmm. that's weird. The Asus page says the A7V133 can only handle up to 1GHz chip. Why would they make a *NEW* board that supports the 133MHz-bus speed, but only 1 processor using that speed can be placed on it? The 1GHz Athlon is the slowest chip that comes in a 133MHz flavor. I would think this is a typo. You might want to ask Asus, though.

BTW, when I say '133MHz-based', I mean a 266MHz FSB. Likewise, a '100MHz-based' board supports a 200MHz FSB. Sorry for any confusion.

- Chris

[Wyatt963]

I just upgraded my sytem last week. I got an Abit KT133A mobo, 256mb of Corsair pc133 Ram, AMD Thunderbird 1000mhz, and a Leadtek

GeForce 2 GTS Pro. Combat Mission runs absolutely great with this setup. It looks really great if you turn on the 4x antialiasing feature, the only problem is the text gets scrambled. Which is a shame , because the graphics are so smooth, it's like watching a movie.

[Guest Captitalistdoginchina]

Wyatt963,

your text should not be scrambled...unless you are using deanco's interface mod with that card...if you are using deanco's mod you need to replace one file via a patch from his site - it will fix the problem.

I Have a Asus A7V 133 - with T-Bird, 256mb ram and a Hurcules 64MB GTS.....simply wonderful

CDIC

[Maximus]

Originally posted by Wolfe:

Hmm. that's weird. The Asus page says the A7V133 can only handle up to 1GHz chip. Why would they make a *NEW* board that supports the 133MHz-bus speed, but only 1 processor using that speed can be placed on it? The 1GHz Athlon is the slowest chip that comes in a 133MHz flavor. I would think this is a typo. You might want to ask Asus, though.

BTW, when I say '133MHz-based', I mean a 266MHz FSB. Likewise, a '100MHz-based' board supports a 200MHz FSB. Sorry for any confusion.

- Chris

Yes this is a 200/266 FSB board. I believe it is the A7V133 as you suggested.

I spent the better part of Saturday afternoon in the store watching one of the techs build a system to test this new Geforce card. It was a Pro version which needs that special Pro AGP slot. The owner of the shop took one of those cards home with him and he had troubles in getting it to run on his machine, but he was running WinME, so that may hve been the problem. I'm going back in there tomorrow to see how the test went.

I should mention that this Geforce was not an Nvidia card. It had the Nvidia chipset, but it was made by a 3rd Party Manufacturer. I can't recall the name though.

[Maximus]

As for cooling. Definately.

The Geforce card has a fan on its GPU.

The case I will be getting has two spots for your normal large cooling fans. One in the rear of the case with extremely adequate air holes and a place on the bottom with the same amount of air holes. I'll get one fan blowing in and one fan blowing out. Should keep the air circulation nice and cool.

[BeWary]

I'm in the process of building a new system, and I'm going with the Asus A7M266. It supports a 266MHz FSB and PC2100/PC1600 DDR system RAM. I sure wouldn't buy an SDR motherboard at this point, and even though the Asus web page says it has a system bus of 200/266, it apparently doesn't support DDR ram (which seems strange, though I guess would be possible). Their A7M266 is newer and should be faster. www.pricewatch.com lists the A7M266 for $177, but the prices keep dropping.

As for the video card, I'm going to wait a few weeks until the Geforce 3 comes out. At which point the prices for the Geforce 2 Ultra should come down (theoretically and reportedly will). www.tomshardware.com had a recent article that shows that a cheaper video card with a kickin' processor doesn't do your system justice. Not that a GTS is that bad, but an Ultra is that much better.

BeWary

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"Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution.

[BeWary]

I forgot to mention, make sure you get an ATA100 7200RPM hard drive. The Maxtor DiamondMax is a good one. 40gb should be enough for now.

BeWary

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"Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution.

[Maximus]

This Geforce card is better than the Ultra.

As for the board that supports DDR, yes, I was wanting to go that route, but they said that DDR is still in its infancy and still being tested. But later if DDR seems to work out, they said they'd do a DDR board swap out later for just a little more, probably just labor and cost difference. Another reason was they they still haven't got any DDR memory from their supplier yet.

I'm getting an ATA100 30GB HDD, but it's only a 5400 rpm. The guy said tat there isn't that difference between the two speeds as he's runnign an 80 GB 5400 rpm drive in his machine.

[Ellros]

Also... try to get a power supply with a bottom intake fan if it doesn't have one already. Those work a heck of lot better dispersing heat from inside the case than a typical pw that just has intake slots.

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"No matter where you go, there you are"

[Wolfe]

Originally posted by Maximus:

As for the board that supports DDR, yes, I was wanting to go that route, but they said that DDR is still in its infancy and still being tested.

I'd second that sentiment. Even though DDR has been 'up-and-coming' for a while now, chipsets are just starting to emerge for upgraders now. Don't get on the bandwagon too early; there are *always* problems with every new chipset. Let someone else be the guinea pig debugging the new chipsets.

Besides, no matter what you choose today, it won't likely be upgradeable by your next upgrade cycle. Faster DDR (PC2400 and PC2700) is already in the works, as is a new version of Rambus (4-bank), both of which will require new chipsets. And most upcoming CPUs will need a new motherboard anyway. Palomino and Morgan (upcoming Athlon/Duron) and Northwood (upcoming P4) CPUs will probably all require a new socket; meaning new mobo. DDR does show some performance gain over SDRAM now, but newer chipsets will be able to handle newer, faster versions of DDR and will likely be better optimized for DDR too.

Buy one or two versions behind the bleeding edge, and you'll get both the power that you want and better value for your money too. Just MHO.

- Chris

[BeWary]

Maximus,

I'm afraid the Geforce 2 Ultra is the fastest card out there now. It is only available in DDR 64MB. It currently sells for over $300, but that should go down I hope when the Geforce 3 comes out later this month. It is faster than the Geforce 2 GTS/Pro because it uses 4 nanosecond memory, which is why it is so expensive.

Check out the Asus board I mentioned (A7M266), it supports DDR ram.

As for the hard drive, the 5400 RPM will probably work ok for you, but since the hard drive is usually the slowest part of a computer, and "access time is king", I'm going with the 7200 RPM.

Chris,

I disagree with you. I "jumped on the bandwagon" when the PC100 RAM first came out and I bought an Asus board with the latest and greatest chipset (440BX I believe). I never had any problems. Plus, if you do have problems, Asus is quick to fix them and it only requires a simple BIOS flash to upgrade the motherboard.

As far as what you buy today won't be upgradeable later on, that is pretty much always the case if you upgrade once every 2-3 years, which is what I do. If you upgrade more often, then yes, you probably can get away with keeping some of the same components from one upgrade to the next. It's all a matter of preference I guess. I prefer to pay a little bit more and enjoy my games to their fullest extent for 1-2 years easily. I've done this for the past 6 years and it has worked quite well. My PC100/440BX board I mentioned above is only now starting to show its age, which is why I'm upgrading. I built that system in July of 1998, so it's almost been 3 years since my last upgrade. Not too bad in my book.

Just my 2 cents.

BeWary

P.S. www.crucial.com (they sell Micron memory factory direct) just released PC2100 (DDR 266MHz) RAM. I just bought 256MB for just over $100. That beats the best price on www.pricewatch.com by $75!

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"Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution.

[Wolfe]

Chris, I disagree with you. I "jumped on the bandwagon" when the PC100 RAM first came out and I bought an Asus board with the latest and greatest chipset (440BX I believe). I never had any problems. Plus, if you do have problems, Asus is quick to fix them and it only requires a simple BIOS flash to upgrade the motherboard.

Even though it turned out to be one of the best chipsets ever made, even the 440BX had teething probs. A large segment of folks had problems when trying to use APM on their new BX boards. The system would hang when trying to come out of suspend mode. A BIOS work-around was fashioned, but it took 4~5 months to get it. And Intel released a new chipset revision so the work-around was no longer needed. Even the best of the best can and do have errata.

As for PC-100, sheesh. Where to begin? At first people weren't even sure what exactly PC-100 meant. Various modules were incompatible with certain motherboards; modules from different manufacturers wouldn't work together in the same board (even though they would individually); some boards would refuse to boot at all with DIMMs that didn't have the SPD chip (even PC-66 stuff). All in all, tons of fun.

Of course, DDR SDRAM and the KT266 won't necessarily suffer the same problems as these, but some flavor of teething problems (some worse than others) always do occur. Even on hardware that turns out to be some of the best in the business, like the 440BX.

It's certainly a matter of personal preference, but dealing with a finicky piece of new hardware can be very frustrating. Particularly for first-time builders. The second revision of any tech is always faster, cheaper, more compatible, and induces fewer headaches. I try to either buy slightly behind the curve, or wait for the bug fixes.

I guess Guinea Pig just isn't my favorite game to play. Although I *did* buy my Voodoo 5 the first day it hit the shelves. I still haven't seen a video card powerful enough and with enough useful features to consider replacing it yet. Even the GeForce 3 isn't enough of a step up to bother with. Although I doubt the V5 will hold out quite as long as your BX board.

I built that system in July of 1998, so it's almost been 3 years since my last upgrade. Not too bad in my book.

Excellent! Great value. Even for an early adopter.

Just my 2 cents.

Ditto.

P.S. www.crucial.com just released PC2100 (DDR 266MHz) RAM. I just bought 256MB for just over $100.

Good to see decent prices, especially since SDRAM has started to creep back up in price.

- Chris

[BeWary]

Chris,

True dat. I will certainly concede that new technology tends to have its fair share of quirks and bugs to work through, and yes, it can be very frustrating for sure. I guess I'm just used to it by now.

Thanks for a civil discussion. I like that about this board.

BeWary

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"Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution.

[Wolfe]

Originally posted by BeWary:

True dat. I will certainly concede that new technology tends to have its fair share of quirks and bugs to work through, and yes, it can be very frustrating for sure. I guess I'm just used to it by now.

Just so you know what you're getting yourself into.

Thanks for a civil discussion. I like that about this board.

Thanks. Same to ya. Yeah, this board can be pretty good. Atleast some of the time.

Good luck with your upgrade.

- Chris

[This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 04-03-2001).]

[Guest ckoharik]

Well, I can post with my current experience.

Just purchased a Soyo K7ADA MB with an AMD T-Bird 1.33GHz chip and 512MB of PC2100 RAM. Slapped in a Elsa Gladiac MX (GeForce2 MX card), 30GB 7200rpm drive, SoundBlaster X-Gamer 5.1, Linksys 10/100 NIC, Sony DVD & HP CD-RW drives. The vid card is from another box until such time as the GeForce3's are actually out and I can compare them to the 2 Ultras (probably go 3 just to get the new features/performance). Here is what has happened:

-First off, major problems with heat. I need to add a fan to the back of the case but the PS that was sold to me (combo package) does *not* have a fan on the bottom. According to the hardware monitor the CPU was up to between 130 and 145 F which is *WAY* over the line. Stop gap measure is to have a small floor fan blowing into the open case. Temp stays down around 111. Still waiting for feedback from the vendor and others on a permanent solution.

-Second, the system seemed to have a hard time seeing the vid card to start. Had to reseat it a couple times. S'OK now.

-Installed Win2K Prof without any hiccups. All patches and updates have been applied.

-There have been a few times when the system either wouldn't shut down entirely, or wouldn't reboot without a full power off/on. Not sure what is causing that.

-Performance is phenomenal. With the exception of the occasional pause which I believe is caused by Windows everything runs supa-smuuuuv. CM plays at 1600x1200x32bpp like a gem even with lots of tanks on both sides shooting at each other. Only glitch is the text issue with my vid card.

All in all I think now I should have spent the extra money and gone with an Asus MB as I have had great luck with them. This time I went the Soyo route on the recommendation from a friend. My total experience as you can see has been mixed but I believe once I get the kinks worked out it should be a monster box.

-Chris

(think I'll change my handle to Panzer Boxb finally)

[Ellros]

http://www1.amd.com/athlon/config

check this out for cooling guidelines for Athlon motherboards and processors. Very informative. Select the cooling guidelines link.

[Guest ckoharik]

Originally posted by Ellros:

http://www1.amd.com/athlon/config

check this out for cooling guidelines for Athlon motherboards and processors. Very informative. Select the cooling guidelines link.

Yup, already read that one. It was one of the motivators for me contacting the customer support group from the company I purchased from. They should not have built the system if it did not meet the cooling guidelines, especially for a processor this fast. What I'm hoping they'll do without much prompting is replace the power supply and give me another case fan.

[Wolfe]

Originally posted by ckoharik:

According to the hardware monitor the CPU was up to between 130 and 145 F which is *WAY* over the line.

Where did you see that 145F (63C) is really bad? According to AMD's datasheets, the allowable die temp is 95C (203F) for your CPU. I do realize that the temp measurement on Athlon systems is outside the CPU (unlike the P-III and P4, the Athlon doesn't have an on-die temp probe), but that temp should be OK for the chip. If the temp probe was in the upper 70's to low 80's (celcius), I might start getting worried and thinking about other cooling methods. But you should be OK. Although doing anything you can to get excess heat out of the system is never a bad thing.

My 900MHz T-bird can make it into the mid-50's when playing games. Your 1.3GHz will naturally be a bit higher.

- Chris

[Guest ckoharik]

I don't remember exactly where I saw the spec but I can remember it stating that with proper cooling the temp shouldn't read above 120's. Yet, I cannot find any specific information on AMD's site as to the tolerances of the processor so if you have a link that would be greatly appreciated.

Now, if I could just solve these other nagging problems I'd be happy.

[Wolfe]

Originally posted by ckoharik:

I don't remember exactly where I saw the spec but I can remember it stating that with proper cooling the temp shouldn't read above 120's. Yet, I cannot find any specific information on AMD's site as to the tolerances of the processor so if you have a link that would be greatly appreciated.

Electrical specs:

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm

Or directly from AMD: AMD Tech Doc Directory

Now, if I could just solve these other nagging problems I'd be happy.

The hang-on-exit thing seems to be an intermittent prob with various versions of Windoze. Win95 (and I think 98) had it in some circumstances and Win ME seems to have it as well (not sure if the prob is related). So it wouldn't surprise me to see that Win2k has it as well. I don't know if MS' Knowledge Database or one of their newsgroups might have something about it. Might be worth checking out. Good luck.

- Chris