Bier und Brezel - how did you get on?

[phil stanbridge]

I've just finished playing this epic scenario. I was awarded a blue Total Victory which I am amazed at considering the chaos and losses inflicted on both sides. Just to add, I normally detest playing defensive missions, but certainly here, you can see how the designers have got round the problems. It was certainly the biggest mission I've played using the Shock Force engine. I really want to replay it as red, but it was so time consuming. I think I might have a quick look in the scenario editor to see what was going on there. Great fun, and thoroughly recommended, providing your pc can handle it!

[Waaarg]

Wow that looks brutal. I've never had losses like that. Sounds like fun, I'll load it up tonight. Did you feel it was balanced for H2H? Always looking for scenarios recommendations for PBEMs.

[Sergei]

In theory it could be used for H2H, but be warned - it will be brutal, and two hours is quite a lot of time in PBEM to watch your ass getting handed to you! But if the German player can stall the attack for long enough, he's got some fighting chance. A careful study of the terrain and available forces is required for this.

[phil stanbridge]

It was a brutal nightmare

The first hour as the Germans is difficult in the extreme. Like Sergei says you have to use the lay of the land as best as possible, but even then it's the luck of the draw due to enemy air support. There's a LOT of ordnance thrown your way and there's sweet fa you can do about it. I would say it is reasonably balanced after the first hour but before that, forget it

[Boche]

could some things be tweaked to make it H2H balanced¿

[afreu]

I played it this afternoon and suffered 48 killed and 49 wounded.

SPOILER

During setup phase I tried to put all infantry in positions which where covered from the open ground across which the enemy forces were advancing. The grenadiers were equipped with all the available Panzerfausts (such a great armor killer). Expecting the enemy air assets to target my vehicles first, I ordered them away from infantry postions to hide behind the lines. Except for the Wiesels, which took position in the small forests. As the enemy advanced the only units engaging them, were the Milan crews and the Wiesels. Enemy mechanized infantry stopping and disembarking from their vehicles were targeted by the 120mm mortars (quite effectively). With the Hochgebirgsjäger platoon I tried to reinforce my positions on the right-hand side of the map. In order to not expose them to enemy tank fire I disembarked them and let them continue on food. Unfortuantely while crossing open ground they got ripped apart by enemy helicopter gunships. As soon as the enemy mechanized infantry closed in on the buildings the Panzergrenadiers exposed themselves and defended their positions. The two platoons which took the brunt of the enemy attack suffered quite a few casualties. The deadliest enemy weapons were the supporting fire from the BMP-2s and the effective artillery fire. Nevertheless the Panzergrenadiers managed to hold their positions and with one hour left the enemy surrendered.

Reviewing the map I was surprised to see so few enemy vehicles and troops involved in the attack. It seemed like a company of mechanized infantry and another comany of tanks. I guess the enemy artillery and aircraft bombardments created the impression of a much larger force.

[Praetori]

The opforce is actually smaller than the Germans defending if I remember correctly.

It's a brutal defend mission alright. I've tried the old WW2 tactic of suppressing the opfor infantry with mortars as to separate them from the advancing armor. It turns out it works quite well and makes taking the tanks out with the Panzerfausts a whole lot easier.

Yesterday I tried getting up even closer to the opfor armor with the PzGren and it seems it works to keep at least the hostile CAS away. I even saw a tank get blown up by what I think was red-on-red fire from opfor air.

All this considered I've not managed anything close to a German Total Victory though my casualty rates are about the same as the op.

[phil stanbridge]

I actually thought the red force had a battalion or thereabouts and BMP/tank support plus plenty of artillery (rockets) and air support from the off. Both forces must be pretty evenly balanced? That's the difference I think. I'm playing it as red now, and indeed it is a bit surprising but it just goes to show how damn well the scenario has been designed. It's really difficult as blue, and not much easier as red tbh.

[Sergei]

It's nice that you like it, I had to spend quite some time on those AI plans. And for a two-hour scenario, it takes some time to test them after changes! The red force is a company of tanks and three companies of mechanized infantry, plus battalion units, Shilkas and a lot of artillery. The main part of the Mech Rifle companies arrive as reinforcements.

I've got a few special versions of this scenario in works: one with T-90's (requires USMC) and H2H versions of the ordinary and the T-90 versions. The H2H version is mostly the same as normal, but the scenario has been compacted to 1 hour 30 minutes and arrival times have been adjusted to make it harder for the Red player to crush the Gebirgsjägers before the Panzers come to rescue!

[Battlefront.com]

One of the unsung cool features of Relative Spotting is the overlapping false reports of where units are. I remember playing the original Shock Force "Going to Town" demo and thinking an entire company was trying to flank me. But I made the scenario so I knew it was, at most, 2 or 3 units. But everybody kept thinking they were spotting something new and so it added up to a lot of "?" markers!

Steve

[panzermartin]

Yes, very realistic, but sometimes it gets so confusing its not even funny