MikeyD Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I'm in the middle of another big debate! The current German Marder IFC has the external MG3 coaxial mg mounted across from the 20mm autocannon. I'm claiming the MG3 is literally coaxial - its attached to the same elevation mechanism as the cannon. My opponent in this debate claims its a geniune remote weapons station and can elevate independently from the cannon. Anyone on the board with hands-on experience of the Marder to prove one of us wrong? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I don't have hands on experience, but I think I know where the confusion may be coming from. Early Marders, 1A1 and earlier, had a MG3 RWS on the back of the hull controlled by the dismount commander. http://www.panzerbaer.de/types/pix/bw_spz_marder_1a1a-01.jpg If it's any help, the company sight lists it as coaxial. http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/index.php?fid=1415〈=3&pdb=1 Would it being elevated separately from the cannon, but controlled by the same FCS/optics as the cannon really make it an RWS? It's not like you could practically engage two targets with it, you use the cannon OR the MG (based on interior pictures of the marder turret and the fact there is one day optic, one IR optic on the turret, nothing separate for the MG3. ). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 It was my impression the Marder coax mg was very much a jerry-rigged contraption trying to stick a turret mg where one wasn't designed for. Simply bolting a mg to the overhead gun's elevation drum. No fancy elcetronics or motors. Installing independent elevation would've been a horror to attempt on that funky old Marder turret. But just because that's my impression doesn't mean its correct 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 My impression would by why even bother making it elevate independently? Nothing much to be gained, only makes it more complicated. The 20mm can elevate up/down really far due to the design and there would be no reason to move them independently in elevation, you would be limited to aiming at one target anyway. Not to mention, check out how it's mounted. It's bolted to a piece that is in turn bolted and what looks like sealed/welded to the main turret. I can't see that rotating. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/TMG_MG3_Marder_1A3.jpg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 It sounds like I'm winning my debate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluskowski Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Guten Tag, in the year 2000 I had my Grundausbildung in the 92.PZ.Gren.Lehr.Btl. in Munster. After that I was a Richtschütze in the Marder 1 A3. Marder uses a standard (in 2000) MG3 without shoulderpad. It is hidden in a box on the left side of the turret. It moves along with the Maschienenkanone. http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1874/juliansbilder002.jpg If you can see the picture you see a Marder 1 A3 of 2.Zug 4. Kompanie. It does not clarify your coaxquestion, but you can see the box and a bit of the MG3 barrel and it is nice. Schönen Tag Julian 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Here's a bit of somewhat related trivia: The CV9035 co-ax can be elevated to a higher angle then the main gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 SPz Marder 1A3/A5 coax have same elevation angles like main weapon, it is classic coax, but in the external box and it can't be reloaded from the inside IRCC. The CV9035 co-ax can be elevated to a higher angle then the main gun. I think this is common to all CV90's except CV9040C due to turret design and how coax is placed. It is not placed in main weapon mantle so it is possible that i can have higher elevation angle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 SPz Marder 1A3/A5 coax have same elevation angles like main weapon, it is classic coax, but in the external box and it can't be reloaded from the inside IRCC. It looks like a pretty big box though. Wikipedia says 5000 rounds total are carried for the MG3. Anyone know how many the box holds? Looks like maybe 500 or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 That plate on the side of the box says it holds 500 rounds. You can't see it from that angle but I located another photo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Will it be reloadable with someone unbuttoned in CMSF? On the TUSK Abrams, I believe that the top M2HB is reloadable from the unbuttoned commander, but the M2HB mounted on the main gun is not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Other vehicles with RWS (Strykers, Bulldogs, Challenger 2s) can reload when unbuttoned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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