Thoughts on subs, destroyers and ASW

[StellarRat]

So last night while I was getting my a$$ kicked by the AI.....I was thinking that when subs reach level 4 (nukes) they should be on equal footing with any surface ship in the game. Also I think they should be able to carry all the missiles in the game except the V2 and long range ICBM. From everything I've read and my talks with real naval people a nuclear attack sub is more than a match for any single ship. They should have speed equal to or greater than the fastest surface ship (haven't checked that in game.) Nuke subs really are super weapons when it comes to hunting other ships or subs. But they very expensive and should cost at least as much as a level 4 cruiser. Also, I still think ASW aircraft are a good idea.

[Schrullenhaft]

I agree. Perhaps a new 'Boomer' class of Class 4 and 5 subs should be created for the 'ICBM'/'SRBM' capability, while the 'Cruise missle' could be carried by the 'standard' subs. 'Drone missles' seem to be more of land-based type of weapon, but if they become the only missile in that class to be produced, perhaps including them in one or the other of the sub classes.

However Brit would have to code up subs a bit differently than they are now to accomplish this.

Some aircraft in the game do have some sort of ASW capability. I'm not sure who, but the AI has sunk my subs with aircraft before.

[StellarRat]

I've only seen aircraft attack subs when they have just attacked themselves. Brit could answer that. I admit I don't know how sub detection works in game. That might be realistic up to level 3 aircraft, but modern ASW aircraft can detect submerged subs with sonobuoys and MAD. They're very close to as good as a destroyer they just dont have the endurance to stay on station for days. One thing they dont have to worry about is the sub attacking them unlike a destroyer. It really depends on map scale and time per turn. Boomers are nearly impossible to detect until they attack.

[rich12545]

To counter that, some of the modern subs are very quiet, especially at low speeds.

You guys have good ides. And, if you want, you can make your own rulesets to play them.

[Deadmeat1471]

I agree. Perhaps a new 'Boomer' class of Class 4 and 5 subs should be created for the 'ICBM'/'SRBM' capability, while the 'Cruise missle' could be carried by the 'standard' subs. 'Drone missles' seem to be more of land-based type of weapon, but if they become the only missile in that class to be produced, perhaps including them in one or the other of the sub classes.

However Brit would have to code up subs a bit differently than they are now to accomplish this.

Some aircraft in the game do have some sort of ASW capability. I'm not sure who, but the AI has sunk my subs with aircraft before.

Cruise missiles could simply be an 'aircraft' that destroys on attack? we could mod that in now i believe? or maybe we need missile carry capacity as well as aircraft carry capacity? (if it isnt already)

Two typical modern subs i see are:

Typhoon class submarine (Russian/Soviet)

-Large

-Not as stealthy as Los angeles class

-Durable due to size

-High payload

Los Angeles class sumarine (USA)

-Smaller than Typhoon (alot!!!)

-VERY quiet

-Quite vulnerable to damage

-Good countermeasures both electric and acoustic (against torpedos)

-Can carry cruise missiles

[Brit]

Yeah, I think I could get deeper into the whole submarine / anti-submarine warfare dynamic. If there's a deeper game dynamic, I'll also have to make sure I'm guiding new players towards useful tactics so they aren't confused about what to do.

[StellarRat]

I've just about finished my sub upgrade mod. I have added SSN, SSBN, and Maritime Patrol (ASW) planes plus a couple of surprises. I need to fix a couple of small issues then I'll post it. Brit, if you could add an image and sound pointers to the unit screen that would be awesome.

[Brit]

I've just about finished my sub upgrade mod. I have added SSN, SSBN, and Maritime Patrol (ASW) planes plus a couple of surprises. I need to fix a couple of small issues then I'll post it. Brit, if you could add an image and sound pointers to the unit screen that would be awesome.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by image and sound pointers. Do you mean a way to select unit-images and sounds? You can change the unit-image by clicking on the image itself. The sounds are linked to the images - i.e. the "Tank (Class 3)" image is linked to several sounds so that all units that use the "Tank (Class 3)" image always play the same "I'm selected" and combat sounds.

Or did you mean a system so that you can insert your own images and sounds to a ruleset?

[StellarRat]

The second one. I'd like to be able to use my own image and sound for any unit. I guess I should have said "file location." Ideally you'd press "BROWSE" and rules editor would import your sound and/or image into your custom rules set for a unit or even building/resource for that matter.

[StellarRat]

OK the subs mod is ready. See my enhanced late era mod post.

[Brit]

The second one. I'd like to be able to use my own image and sound for any unit. I guess I should have said "file location." Ideally you'd press "BROWSE" and rules editor would import your sound and/or image into your custom rules set for a unit or even building/resource for that matter.

Ok. I'm hoping to get the unit-image/animation importer up and running pretty soon here. There will be a bunch of new images and animations in the North Africa scenario, and it would be especially useful to have that functionality in place for that.