Artillery & Air Support

[Narses]

I did not want to post this as a "Bug" as it is a developers' judgement situation.

First let me say I've not played all the way through the campaigns (actually the reason is I'm experiencing some problems retrieving my "saved" games but that is another issue). I've been mostly playing games using the simple editor.

In my own editor made scenarios I find it frustrating to not get support when I want it. Yes, I realize this is an issue in every army especially for divisional arty support already planned or for air support even more difficult. But when one is making game editorial missions support such as mortars which are organic to your own lower level units at co, bn and rgt should be immediately available. There should be a way tp permit immediate mortar support to you as cdr especially at the start of an attack and even for div arty support. There should be a way in the SE (maybe it is available in the Editor [not the Simple Editor]).

I've read the manual (pg 54, etc.) and do not understand the reason for victory points as a means to getting support. Support should not depend on successful or difficult even failure in reaching objectives. Especially under difficult combat situations requiring withdrawal support may be provided.

Support it is true, based on my 20 yrs in the army, is planned for with priorities to certain units in defense or attack. However outside those planned parameters support is or may be available for other reasons developing during the battle. If in the attack units not expected to be the point of main effort suddenly make a breakthrough fires and support are usually quickly shifted. In defense the same is true as battle conditions will ultimately dictate where support is sent.

I simply think the victory points is an artificial and unnecessary restriction. Perhaps div arty and air could have instead a % chance of not happening but it should be available and mortar support organic at much lower levels should be available.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Tartari]

Did you try to put zero to the "cost" parameter in the supports panel in the Editor? You'll be able to use your supports at the beginning.

[Arzok]

it is the right solution

[Knokke]

The possibility to modify support"price" is available only in the advanced editor, as far as I remember; the support has a default cost in the simple editor.

[Narses]

OK thanks for that info. But why can't it be in the SE as well.

Basing "support" on points is a bit odd. It seems its in the campaign as well. As the German assaults the southern portion of Cherkasskoe you cannot access your air or arty because of "insufficient points." That is crazy. An all out assault on an important objective would have priority for some support.

[sand digger]

Agree with Narses, the other thing is you may be tempted to make an attack, for example, simply to gain more points. Its an unrealistic feature.

[Knokke]

It is all the more irealistic that you have more chance of obtaining support when you don't need it (when you're winning) and no chance at all when you really need support (when you're about to loose). In the mission generator, it means you could choose very few troops, then with the remaining points, buy a lot of artillery support, destroy most of the ennemy troops in your preparatory artillery barrage, then get new support points and buy the troops to finish the job.

The AI have already played this trick once or twice to me

[Arzok]

It is the same for multiplayer missions.

You have reinforcement that need 4500 victory points.

But the whole destruction of your opponent represents less than 4000 points !!!

And once you have destroyed your opponent, you need no more tanks :confused:

[sand digger]

Maybe it would be better to award extra benefits for the economical use of resources. Give us a starting allocation, plus reserves that have to be paid extra for in some way if you move them at all. At the end your situation would benefit, or not, depending on the amount of resources used in total and your use or not of reserves.

So at some time you have to make a decision as to moving the reserves up or not. Can I do the job with what I have or will the reserves be needed? Do I bring the reserves up straight away? Will using the reserves be more economical overall eg the extra firepower will save infantry lives?

[Xerxes the Great]

OK, so it is not just me!! Happy to see others notice it too!

In my opinion, each player should get at least one round of Artillery and one round of Air support to be spent at any given time the player wishes depending on strategy and tactical situations. If there is a bonus round by capturing a key point or achieving certain points, that's fine but let the players have by default at least one round of each. The reason is simple: It adds another strategic element to the game both offensively and defensively and it is a shame to eliminate it via some weird logic of achieving points!!

This will force the enemy (other player) to invest in AAA units or to run the risk of getting hit without any defensive measures.

When to use and which positions to attack with air and artillery would be completely up to the players.

This point system is illogical and unrealistic and unintuitive. Since TOW is all about realistic simulations, this aspect of game needs to be addressed in the next patch. I sure hope Battlefront/1C are listening to users and adjust the game play.

These little changes will polish this little gem and could elevate it to a cult status.

If I am winning and capturing points, chances are that I don't really need the air support or artillery barrage and it lessens the competitive aspect of the game since the other player with lesser points would be at even more disadvantage situation.

Over and out