Russian recon units

[tyrspawn]

Does anyone know the composition of a typical recon platoon in the Russian army? What are these units called? All I could find on google is mention of spetnaz doing recon. I was wondering the composition of the screen forces surrounding the main force, hopefully a mechanized or motorized variant.

This is for an ARMA II mission i am doing for tacticalgamer.com and you guys are the only ones I could think of to ask. I like to keep my missions historically accurate.

[Alex]

I can show a soviet structure second half of 80th (it's close to russian)

mechanized - http://ryadovoy.ru/militarizm/orgstruktures/inf&tank_sovet/podr_polks/rrpolk/org_MS(T)Reg_rr_3.htm

VDV (airborne) - http://ryadovoy.ru/militarizm/orgstruktures/VDV_soviet/pdp80/org_vdv_rr-pdp_03a(BMD).htm

But on russian.

[tyrspawn]

If only I could read Cyrillic. >_<

Think you could translate?

[JayA55]

Use babelfish, it'll translate the entire page for you.

[tyrspawn]

When you say 2nd half of the 80th, do you mean the 1980s? Anyone have any modern estimates on structure?

i assume department = squad in bablefish lol

[Alex]

Yes I'm., 1980s.

Modern russian brigade structure is unknown yet.

1-й Recon platoon (on BMP/BRM)

Total in platoon:

24 men (в т.ч. 1 officer, 4 sergeant, 19 soldiers)

3 BRM-1К ( http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/БРМ-1К )

1 BMP-1/-2

1 MANPADS "Igla/strela" 9К34/9К310/9К38

1 RPG-7В (in BMP)

20 АКС-74(Н)

4 АКС-74У

5 PM pistol

3 ЛПР-1 - laser recon device

3 night binocular

3 night scope (NSPU)

1) platoon HQ

1st Lieutenant

АКС-74, PМ

1st scout squad

1) squad lieder (BRM-1K)

2) 1st operator

3) operator

4) Driver

5) Radio operator

2, 3 scout squads

1) Squad lieder (1 BRM-1K)

2) 1st operator

3) operator

4) Driver

5) Radio operator

6) Scout

4 scout squad

1) Squad lieder (BMP-1/2)

2) Weapon-operator

3) Driver

4) 1st scout

5) scout

6) scout (MANPADS - AA weapon)

Well maybe it's not very good translation, but it all that i can.

[John Kettler]

tyrspawn,

It would help if I understood what kind of recon unit you mean. For example, you could have Spetsnaz from Army and Front (generally on foot or operating in stolen vehicles after being parachuted in), recon troops from the divisional recon battalion (operating in standard recon AFVs and armed sidecar motorcycles, maybe even ATVs and other more recent kit), or we could be dealing with the advance guard of the regiment or battalion. When I did this stuff for a living, the point element used to consist of a single BRDM-2 and two sidecar motorcycles. This was followed by a motor rifle company and a tank platoon trailing a few kilometers behind. These two were combat recon formations, intended to bull through light resistance and fix heavier forces so that parent formations could deploy from march and crush them. Trailing these would be an MRB minus, together with a tank company (-), plus a 2S1 battery and a pair each of ZSU-23/4 and SA-9/13. As you can see, you haven't asked a simple question.

Regards,

John Kettler

[tyrspawn]

tyrspawn,

It would help if I understood what kind of recon unit you mean. For example, you could have Spetsnaz from Army and Front (generally on foot or operating in stolen vehicles after being parachuted in), recon troops from the divisional recon battalion (operating in standard recon AFVs and armed sidecar motorcycles, maybe even ATVs and other more recent kit), or we could be dealing with the advance guard of the regiment or battalion. When I did this stuff for a living, the point element used to consist of a single BRDM-2 and two sidecar motorcycles. This was followed by a motor rifle company and a tank platoon trailing a few kilometers behind. These two were combat recon formations, intended to bull through light resistance and fix heavier forces so that parent formations could deploy from march and crush them. Trailing these would be an MRB minus, together with a tank company (-), plus a 2S1 battery and a pair each of ZSU-23/4 and SA-9/13. As you can see, you haven't asked a simple question.

Regards,

John Kettler

Yeah, I know I was being unclear... I was hoping for someone to point me in the right direction.

Essentially I want the forward/screening forces surrounding the main battalion body, the first forces you are going to bump into during an attack. The russian mechanized recon company the 2nd poster linked seems perfect, but I am still unsure how I would deploy them on the map, as I dont have any field manuals to look at (like the American ones from globalsecurity.org).

Any hints?

And what do you mean "did this for a living?"

Analyst?

[tyrspawn]

Yes I'm., 1980s.

Modern russian brigade structure is unknown yet.

1-й Recon platoon (on BMP/BRM)

Total in platoon:

24 men (в т.ч. 1 officer, 4 sergeant, 19 soldiers)

3 BRM-1К ( http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/БРМ-1К )

1 BMP-1/-2

1 MANPADS "Igla/strela" 9К34/9К310/9К38

1 RPG-7В (in BMP)

20 АКС-74(Н)

4 АКС-74У

5 PM pistol

3 ЛПР-1 - laser recon device

3 night binocular

3 night scope (NSPU)

1) platoon HQ

1st Lieutenant

АКС-74, PМ

1st scout squad

1) squad lieder (BRM-1K)

2) 1st operator

3) operator

4) Driver

5) Radio operator

2, 3 scout squads

1) Squad lieder (1 BRM-1K)

2) 1st operator

3) operator

4) Driver

5) Radio operator

6) Scout

4 scout squad

1) Squad lieder (BMP-1/2)

2) Weapon-operator

3) Driver

4) 1st scout

5) scout

6) scout (MANPADS - AA weapon)

Well maybe it's not very good translation, but it all that i can.

Thank you very much.

[hcrof]

Recon elements such as the one mentioned by Alex operate well ahead of the main force (25km?) and would not really expect to do much combat. They might send some guys to do a route reconnaisence, set up an observation post or set up a radar post.

The 'Tip of the spear' if you like might be an infantry company supported by tanks and engineering assets. Back in the Soviet days they might lead with a mech platoon reinforced with a squad of engineers and a couple of tanks, the rest of the company would follow on 10-30mins later with more tanks, artillery and engineers to develop the battle further. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the modern Russian army to say what their exact structure would be so maybe modify the above to make the game fun.

It all depends on what sort of battle you have in mind!

Edit: Also, who is attacking? The Russians wouldn't lead with such a small force if they knew where the enemy where, if they are defending they might change their screening units completely. More info please!

[Vark]

Tyrspawn, if you want to do some more research about cold war tactics use the following terms to perhaps help.

First units encountered (not the dedicated regimental recce) as hcrof said they would be busy trying not to fight.

1. Combat Security Patrol (CSP) made up of a platoon (composition depending on the parent regiment)

2. Foward Security Element (FSE), as the name suggests they are screening the lead battalion and look to detect and destroy counter-recce units and find a soft spot. If involved in a serious contact would attack and if repelled go firm, harrass/scout the enemy and wait for the AG.

3. Advance Guard (battalion, less elements used for the CSP and FSE), although only battalion strength they could have substantial artillery assets available and gunship support.

Composition is as John suggested, though there are no hard and fast rules, (big debate amongst analysts about just how accurate our intel was). What you do have is a steady escalation of combat power with a fixed purpose and a massive number of tubes, including MRL's.

Down load the demo for TacOps 4 it shows the units involved (you cannot play the Opfor) but you certainly experience the progressive build up and probing attacks. If I were designing a AA II scenario it would have this steady build up, built in, and woe betide the defender who does not maximise his mobility, sit it out and you will be overwhelmed or bypassed!

[John Kettler]

tyrspawn,

This is a marvelous overview of what Spetsnaz is, does and how it differs from line formation combat ops.

http://www.officialspetsnaz.com/russian_spetsnaz.htm

Though I worked under a variety of administrative titles, I was a Soviet Threat Analyst at Hughes and Rockwell from early 1978-mid 1989, tasked to keep track of anything and everything that might affect company programs. Covered the threat gamut from Spetsnaz to deep orbital surveillance, on everything from the TOW missile to the National Aerospace Plane.

Returning to your larger issue, if you visit the long Afghanistan thread, someone helpfully provided links to the core Army FM 100-2-1,-2,-3 covering the Russians and to several DIA pubs on the tank company and MRB which should prove quite useful to you. I highly recommend Isby's Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army, Fully Revised Edition and Baxter's Soviet Airland Battle Tactics, the latter heavily documented from Russian military sources.

Regards,

John Kettler