WIP British campaign

[bardosy]

Hey,

I'm working on a British campaign. The first 5 missions are ready and packed into a campaign. I wanted two more missions (it's sure) and maybe one more.

A mechanized battalion start his operations from Turkey to Aleppo (from West to East). You can commanding your forces in different situations: dawn, day, dusk, night... in narrow valleys, open or hilly grounds, in agricultural or suburban or dense urban area... and more.

I really need your feedback: suggestions, advice and bug report...

Just send it in this topic. Thanks!

You can download the campaign from here: DOWNLOAD

All you need is the British Module.

Thanks!

[BlackMoria]

I'll be your huckleberry.

I am trying to first scenario now. Do you want feedback via forum or private email?

[bardosy]

Do you want feedback via forum or private email?

It could be great via in this topic.

[souldierz]

Finished the 1st mission.

SPOILER

Outcome

-Brits 4 WIA 1 vehicle lost

-Syrian 174 KIA/WIA, 62 Ok,31 missing, 17 vehicles lost.

First mission i found to be a good fun firefight to watch, but many of the Syrians were caught in the open on the road near the pine trees (East).The Syrian assault from the bush area (North) formed a good firefight until they ran out of the bush area and got picked off in the open.I occupied the Border station with the recce squads and 2IC squads.Moved Acompany and Demo squads as well as the vehicle(warriors) to take positions on the crest of the hills South of Border Station.From there the Brits were locked into a firefight for the majority of play.When i looked at the timer i had about 15 minutes left and i haven't even got to the farm yet so i decided to form an armored column to push down the road.The armored column stopped at the farm and 1 brit vehicle was destroyed by the Syrians on the Reverse slope of the hill they past.I was surprised i suffered no KIA because when the Brit crew bailed out of the vehicle, they were pelted mercilessly by 2 squads with AK fire.Not long after, the Syrians Surrendered with 12 min and 13 sec left.

Rated it a good mission.I enjoyed it and it seemed to be a small appetizer to get the campaign rolling.Firefight could have been tougher if the Syrians stayed in the Bush's or stayed in good firing positions and that probably would have forced an increase in time limit.Will post another reply when i finish the second mission.

Edit:forgot to mention, I suspected there being an IED on the way out of the Border station, so i made a hole in the wall to move the vehicles through so I wouldn't have to go back and around.Good thing i hit the trigger man, because i manged to avoid the first IED, the second IED would of had my name on it, i think i would have been in the blast zone.

[souldierz]

Finished the second mission.

SPOILER

Outcome

-Brits 8 KIA,11 wounded, 2 other vehicles lost.

-Syrian 68 OK,184KIA/WIA, 15 missing,4 tanks lost, 8 other vehicles lost.

I really enjoyed this one and the map was incredible.It was a unique mission that required a set of different and simultaneous tactics and i really liked that the map was big enough and gave a lot of maneuvering room.Was an intense firefight and i didn't expect the enemy to assault the town in force.The mission took an unexpected turn and played differently then what i anticipated leaving me to quickly adjust my plan in the beginning.

I mobilized the scouts, 2 sniper teams, FO and some Javs to secure and hold the South flank and take up positions on the 2 big hills.The town was more fortified then I thought and i had to take a very aggressive assault to capture it.I used the Maneuver support Company to disembark its infantry and form one big line west of the town near the long grass.I held a line until more reinforcements arrived to give me superior firepower and more vehicles to assault the town with.In order to assault the town i laid a huge smoke screen with the vehicles to mask my approach.The wind blew the smoke into town so i was able to follow the smoke in and get a foothold on the town with 2nd platoon and the Maneuver support Company.As the smoke flowed through the town, I made sure every house was hit by Vehicle fire as my inf and vehicles proceeded to clear the town out in an aggressive line constantly moving forward laying down much area fire. 3rd and 4th platoon formed another line West of town and covered the Brits who were moving into town, providing a base of fire in a line formation also.Just as i finished sweeping through and clearing the town, that's when the massive Syrian assault came and kind of caught me off guard, because i thought they would stay in the forest and wait for me.As they flooded out of the forest i was able to hold them into place by ordering vehicle area fire to hit in front of them so they became pinned near the trees.The Syrians became clustered and then air support was called in and bombed them good.What a show.I really enjoyed watching this firefight and it was fairly intense.After the initial assault, the Brits were in good positions to deal the Syrian assault plan a big blow just before they swarmed.If i hadn't took the town swiftly it could have been a different outcome.The firefight lasted a very long time and i should note,that i only took 1 casualty (WIA) fighting for the town(that's the last time i disembark my troops without smoke cover).I must say i was fairly proud of the low casualty fact and of the highly aggressive area fire tactic that saved my pixel troops.

The firefight between the Brits located in town and the Syrians firing from the forest lasted until there was about 20 minutes left in the game, then i figured i needed to get a move on.I used 3rd platoon to Assault from the west the house that was west of the 1st path and to secure that path objective.I used 4th Platoon to mobilize all the way South and move up through the forest to assault the other town at the end of the route from the west.A few recce guys took the hill the Syrian Observer was on.In order to push through the forest i formed an armored column with the 2 Challenger tanks leading in front and 2nd platoon was mounted in vehicles behind the tanks.The armored column had about 8 vehicles.2nd platoon dismounted inside the forest and moved through the forest to secure the North part of the path, while the armored column continued down the path.

As time was ticking down i rushed a bit leading to the majority of my casualties going down in the forest,but I kept pushing and assaulting as fierce as i could making the Syrian forces surrender with 1 minute 5 seconds left.A few casualties i took were kind of hard for me to explain what killed them.2 jackals were destroyed and i think 1 was due to a mine.Another i assumed a recoiless rifle got it.Another jackal crew vanished on me.I never heard a shot but the vehicles crew i guess got shot.1 minute they were fine the next they were ghosts and the vehicle was empty and i could not mount any1 in them even though it said it was dismounted.

I rated that one a great mission, I personally enjoyed that 1 a lot, but its to bad i had to really rush through the forest.I had only 20 minutes to get through it and my original plan was to go through the forest in an arrow formation.My tanks being the tip of the arrow and the other vehicles being the base or the wooden part of the arrow.My troop were gonna form a wedge to safely guard the flanks but regardless of that, like i said i really enjoyed this mission.

[bardosy]

Thank you souldierz for the feedback!

What mode did you play? Real-time/Turn-based? Veteran, elite...?

You are a great commander, because I lost much more lives when I tested it!

1st mission:

I tried to mix the static and dynamic syrian defense, because I don't like the only static defense. I know, the syrians have only chance if they defend staticly, but missions could be much more fun with dynamic defend, when they try to recapture objectives, not just defend it.

This is why the insurgences left the wooded area, because they try to recapture the border station.

And maybe this is why they caught in the road (pine trees)... Because they tried to advance, but in the narrow road they traped in the traffic jam? Thanks for rerprt it, I will try add more specific waypoint for them.

And I think this time (40 mins) could be enough if the player is more aggressiv, and I want to hurry him (I mentioned it in the briefing).

2nd mission:

I glad if you enjoy it. And also you were great, because I lost many british lives in the forest.

It's a masterpiece tactic what you used to capture the town. I never thought about a smoke screen...

My huge lost caused, because I captured earlier the town like you and I insert my troops into the forest and we meet the syrians in the wood. It was very intense, but more bloodshed.

When you captured the two hills in the begining zone, the syrians didn't strike you with mortar? I always got a strike on that two hills, if I try to hold it.

The time: I guess, the time is enough, if you create a schedule... I divided the time by three: one third to the first town, second third to the forest and third third for the last town.

But I really suprised, when you wrote the syrians surrender, because you were not close the the second town. I don't know why they surrender always? Even if the player is not close enough to objectives (there are three objectives in that town and they - syrians - secured it, so they can ruin your major victory. Why they surrender?

[gibsonm]

It's a masterpiece tactic what you used to capture the town. I never thought about a smoke screen...

Sure, but if I understood what was written, its not a smoke screen (from say artillery) but the massing the vehicles and using their close protection smoke?

If that is indeed the case it may well work in CM:SF but it wouldn't happen in real life.

Why?

Well firstly this smoke is meant to protect the vehicle (i.e. defensive in nature, not offensive). So you come across a surprise threat, you pop smoke, you reverse out of harm's way and think about what you need to do.

Secondly, depending on the vehicle, this smoke is often WP (to achieve the near instant coverage required) and that is very nasty to anyone (friend or foe) going through it.

So while it might have done the job in the game, its not very realistic.

Now if I've got that totally wrong and he used dedicated "smoke" rounds from say a CR2 or Artillery then I take it all back, but it doesn't read that way.

Good luck with the campaign.

[bardosy]

You're not wrong! He used the vehicles' smoke grenade. But he was very lucky, because the wind not blow it away, but blow it to the target and he can follow it...

Probably you have right, it's not too realistic, but it was an exellent tactics in the game.

Thank you for your "good luck"!

[souldierz]

I always play Real time on Iron.

In the first mission the traffic jam was caused by the air strike I called in.Also with the combined forces of the the British troops and the vehicles on the edge, they had the advantage of using overwhelming firepower on the high ground.Brits vehicles were able to shoot Syrian vehicles as well as Syrians in the trench near the pine trees.Due to the superior advantage of firepower and high ground, the Syrians running near the road were decimated, the road was a kill zone.If the Syrians ran to take up positions on the high ground and avoided the road, they could have been able to put up more of a fight.Same with vehicles.As for the men who came assaulting through the bush area, i knew they were there because they came running out like mad men.I stayed in position mortared them heavily until i knew they were all killed.If some Syrian troops were to sneak up and hold near the edge of the Bush's, while others try to quick run in, i think it would give the player more of a fight.Even with that said i like how it played out, because for me it felt like the British advance was able to catch and unbalance the Syrian forces at the border.Kind of gives the impression that the Syrians were a little disorganized in meeting the threat but have managed to buy a little time to plan attacks and ambush's on the Brits advance further in the campaign.

In the second Mission i reported 1 of the loss of my Jackals wrong.The other was not hit by a Recoiless, but it was damaged by the artillery that the Syrians did attempt to call in on the hill.I dismounted the recce squad from the the Jackal and had them move to scout at the top of the hill(the one closest to the edge of map).The spotting Syrian rounds hit real close to my command unit located between the two hills.I moved him back and the second Spotting round hit right beside him again narrowly missing him.I thought the Syrian observer was directly targeting him so i Reversed him to hide behind the hill closest to the map.When the Syrian artillery began it was off map near the top of the hill.I moved my Recce squad away but later when i went to put them back in the Jackal that i dismounted and had hiding in the bush,i realized my men could not get in, I guess it was hit by artillery fragments, but remained intact and the status was shown as dismounted.Same with the Jackal crew who i suspect got shot, the vehicle looked fine but was unusable.

The second mission map I liked a lot, because you have forced the player to be very flexible and to use multiple methods and tactics as well as formations to proceed.It became a very diverse mission somewhat of an operation and i think could be an extraordinary task with an increased in time limit and ill try to explain why.

In this mission you have the elements of assaulting and capturing a well enough defended town, that requires a tactic on its own.You also have the Syrian counter attack on the town that requires the player to now defend it.You also have the part i was anticipating the most,running a convoy down a narrow road through thick forest where ambush's could be anywhere.Jungle tactics now come into play and i found it had potential of being a real nail bitter trying to move cautiously through that forest,it's a rare situation in CMSF and for a commander this becomes a real hard survival test.On top of that, there's the break out of the forest part where another small town is waiting for you to rapidly secure and aggressively try to smash through that ambush, another different situation of many that requires a different tactic.The recce guys with another Plt can also act as special ops and another form of tactics emerge, using them as a counter ambush and as ambush teams behind enemy lines as well as getting their eyes on the route and securing its flank from hostiles.

All these different situations force the player to constantly think of forming new ways to approach these threats.Lots of variety.What i think would have put up a hard fight, is possibly have Syrian forces take up positions at the forest's edge forming one big firing line under the concealment of bush's and behind the cover of trees.A deep defense so to speak where there's more Syrians in position behind the troops on the forest edge in order to support them and hamper British assaults.Still have some enemy assault the town with armour and vehicles as well as troops,that was good and caught me off guard, but the important part is to make the outer edge of the forest as a defensive zone for Syria, bogging down the British advance.Also have more men set up to take certain positions to ambush or assault specific spots inside the forest for when the British convoy come through.Corners and elevated spots as well as some downhill areas are ideal for that.Also what would prove tough would be to have Syrian forces on all high ground on map defending and denying the player his recon spots.This is Syrian homeland so they should be everywhere with mostly everything.

With all these factors to consider and the time it will take the player to resolve the firefight,reorganize, break out and resolve another firefight,reorganize,break out, resolve another firefight etc...the time limit will need to be increased dramatically to fully enjoy this gem of a map.This should be one hell of a slog of a map to get through hampering the player in all ways forcing him to constantly adapt unless your story for the campaign says otherwise.To fully go through this map and execute the tactics it will take a lot of time that will be dictated by the out come of the firefights, so the player should be given flexibility with the time hes got because hes going to need it with a tough multi layered/terrain defense in place.

My armoured column with the tanks managed to somewhat break out of the forest to the other side and my flanking Plt was also closing in on the last town.The Syrians managed to immobilize one of my tanks but they were getting shot down as quickly as they popped up.The mission was getting wrapped up and the Syrians who remained and were scattered in the last town were getting pounded, so the surrender wasn't to bad they were defeated,not sure what kind of victory i got.As for my casualties the number could have been drastically decreased, but the timer lite a fire under my butt causing me to be real impatient and running troops without care into areas i suspected of having enemy.Silly mistake that i will avoid next time.I'll just let the timer run out i really don't like losing troops on the back stretch of mission that's running out of seconds.

As for the smoke screen tactic, i think it was realistic and is probably and no doubt done in some situations from all eras in the field of war.Its similar to following the mist or fog or smoke from fires created to limit your foes vision and to close with the enemy.You could use it as defense to mask your withdrawal or you could use it as offense to mask your movement and surprise the enemy, its a double edged sword with no limits to it, its just not easy to control where smoke goes,but there are times when it could be exploited by a good military commander when he sees this rare opportunity.When i realized the smoke blew into town i thought it would be perfect to mask my assault.I ordered most of my vehicles to deploy it and then had my troops advance into the houses behind and under the cover of a massive smoke wall.The smoke started to clear up half way through the town but when it did my troops like ninjas were in positions in the houses with vehicles beside them,locked, loaded in good cohesive formation covering all angles and ready to shoot any target that appeared.Then i moved aggressively putting heavy fire into the houses as i advanced my men and vehicles.The fact i was able to get in the town a set up positions with out the enemy seeing me is what kept me on top and prepared for the unknown Syrian counter attack.

I feel like i just wrote an Essay so here is where i leave it.I'll try to finish off the campaign and try to give you more detailed reports on what was done and what happened.I'm enjoying it so far and there's no real negative feedback i could type,But i guess i should mention that you have spelling mistakes and some unclear sentences in your briefings lol.

[gibsonm]

As for the smoke screen tactic, i think it was realistic and is probably and no doubt done in some situations from all eras in the field of war.

Well as someone with 28 (no 29 now) years of armoured vehicle experience I can tell you it isn't realistic.

Now the game may let you do it but that doesn't mean it should happen.

Without repeating too much of what I wrote before, the vehicle's multi barreled smoke grenade dischargers are a defensive weapon used only to protect itself (not offensively to support / screen Infantry assaults).

Further more if the smoke they projected for you was white, its WP based and your Infantry should have suffered approx 15 - 20% incapacitation due to its toxic fumes, burns etc.

This is one area where CM:SF isn't the perfect simulation (there are others) but overall is still quite good.

By all means use it in the sim but I can tell you from time spent on operations - it doesn't happen in the real world.

As a Canadian you might want to ask your closest LAV III or Leopard commander.

[souldierz]

Gibsonm,

I'm not a stubborn man so I'll take your point that it wouldn't work with vehicle deployed smoke.Besides how can I argue with your 28+ years of experience on operations,simply put, I won't.

The smoke the vehicles laid looked like 2 different types of smoke,one was white while the other was a sandy color.The sandy color one was the majority, where as i think only one vehicle laid the white smoke.It wasn't my intention at first and I thought it would have been to risky to call artillery smoke,because of possible friendly fire, but when i noticed the smoke being blown into the town perfectly from a vehicle, I figured why not take advantage and form a smoke cloud and follow it in. My troops were about 40-50meters behind the smoke as it was blown by the wind.I usually try to keep my pixel men out of heavy smoke.

I heard all kinds of stories in the use of smoke in war,but i'll take your word for it when it comes to this situation and vehicle smoke.

[gibsonm]

Yes the "sandy" coloured stuff is multi spectral smoke (it is designed to block Thermal Imagery or TI) but its still not good to breath in or walk through.

Anyway I just raised the point for your consideration while playing (obviously I can't come over there and stop you ).

Hope the snow's not too deep over there.

[Paper Tiger]

Hi Bardosy

I am about half way through the first mission and I thought I'd post a few comments on what I've seen so far. I am going to assume that you're creating this to be a fun-to-play experience and are not overly concerned with it feeling 'authentic'. That's fine by me.

However, I was a bit confused by my opening OB in the first mission. I get some HQ units and the scouts, no artillery or air support and I must enter the board through a very narrow objective. Ho hum. I had no real problems getting into the border crossing. However, I then get some more HQ units and some engineers. Still no artillery! I slowly move out of the border crossing and run into some serious resistance. When my first real infantry platoon arrives, I'm already about 30% of the way through the mission. That's where I am now...

So, some comments. Start the mission with at least one platoon of infantry onboard. Hold back the HQ units. And give me some artillery or some tanks at the start. Preferably BIG guns too. It appears that this border crossing is crawling with defenders so it's a bit unfair denying me artillery at the start to help clear the way.

The engineers appear to be unsuitable for this mission. Sub them with a second infantry platoon and give me a good force with which to fight my way out of the terrain bottleneck.

The defenders seem to be well placed to support each other so no complaints there. Just that the Brits start the mission with an utterly useless and inappropriate force with which to do the job.

so my suggestions if you're interested...

start with at least one infantry platoon onboard, preferably two,

give the Brits some heavy artillery to set up a pre planned artillery strike, or

at least one air strike at the start,

take the engineers out of the mission,

delay the arrival of the HQ units.

[bardosy]

@Paper Tiger: Thank you your feedback and suggestion! It's an honor to read an other - much veteran - campaign designer's note.

HQ and more HQ units: I put them so early, because I thought it's important to the communication, the C2, between the units. But - sorry I don't remember the OOB exactly (now I'm in the office and yesterday I was working on an other mission for this campaign) - I thought not only HQ units start the operation. When I tested this first mission, I always can capture the border station easily and I didn't advance while the infantry coming. And it's coming very quickly.

When I play with this mission, I just felt too much infantry for a so little mission as this first one.

I always thought enough armored vehicle to capture the objectives and hold the captureds. If I added more AFV, it caused a traffic jam in the narrow pass...

But I really respect your advice, so I'll rethink and rework the infantry in the begining. I will not add more, but I'll reorganized the reinforcement and a platoon will be added to the setup force from the reinforcement. And - if you suggest it - remove HQ units from the setup force and add to the reinforcement.

And engineers will be replace with an other platoon.

Arty: you're right, it's not realistic to start a campaign/operation without arty strike. But this mission is an easy one, and if I add an arty to the setup, it's could be much easier. But because of your advice, I'll add a mortar support. It's not too hard to wash away the syrians, but I hope enough. (in this mission is very easy to cause too much casuality to the enemy).

And this is my QUESTION: as a veteran campaign designer, do you have any advice to prevent the AI enemy to surrender too earlier? In Souldierz's feedback I read he cannot capture the half of the objectives during 1 hour 20 minutes, so the syrians had a chance to deny him to win a major victory, but these dummy arams surrender before the end.

@souldierz: Did you do this on Iron???? Huge respect!!!

I guess I'll not create the forest mission to as huge as you thought, but - a little bit - I take your advice: I'll add more 30 minutes to the gameplay and one more syrian infantry wave into the forest. But it's delayed.

A few ambush points are in the forest already, but I don't want add more, because it could be a nightmare for regular gamers like me. A dynamic counter-attack wave also could be deadly but not so hard as a static ambush defence. When I met with the counter-attack (what you dealt from the fiorst town) IN the forest: I lost many good men. But right now there are enough ambush troopers in the forest already for stop the player if he want move through the forest with only vehicles (without infantry support).

Thanks for your huge feedback today! And thanks for the ideas.

Don't worry about the briefings, handihoc (from this forum) will fix it, but currently he's busy. He's british and I ask him not just fix the mistakes, but add some brit style for the better mood.

[Paper Tiger]

Hi Bardosy

I am in the office just now but I'll reply to your post tomorrow when I have some time.

cheers

PT

[BlackMoria]

Did the first mission and here are my observations:

Briefing - needs a estimate of approximate enemy resistance expected and if there are minefields. In the buildup to the invasion kickoff, the S2 staffs will develop a fairly accurate picture of enemy defensive efforts at the border since they will have time for all sort of intelligence gathering. Since one of your victory conditions is seizing and holding the border crossing station, make that clear in the briefing or change the victory condition to 'touch' rather than 'occupy'. I blew through the border crossing and lost the points because at scenario end, I didn't have anyone at the border crossing, IIRC.

Setup - Pretty tight and close for blue on startup but that is a reality of the map. At least allow blue to organize his forces in the start area rather than be the jumble of vehicles one can't move around, even if the start area is so constrained. I agree 100% with Paper Tiger. For the initial push into the enemies defences, support assets will be at priority call and topped up. That means blue should have arty assets available at the start.

The border area will most likely be mined, so the IEDs are suboptimal. That is assuming of course if you have the Syrians 'making a stand' at the border or 'making a show of it'. From a scenario viewpoint, minefields will offset the fire support (arty) advantage of blue. Blue will have the firepower advantage but will be constrainted by limitations on manuever (at least until they push past the minefields). Red doesn't have the firepower advantage but can freely maneuver. I would suggest minefields over IEDs because it make sense unless the Syrian intend to put their main defensive zone beyond the border area. Minefields justify having engineer assets at startup or as early reinforcements. I concur with the assessment that there needs to be more teeth on the ground at startup. If the Syrians are defending the border, the teeth are going first since intelligence gathering will already establish where the Syrian defensive positions are. The recce assets will come into play after the breakthrough, when the situation is more chaotic and fluid. I would therefore suggest replacing the recce forces with infantry forces.

The force ratio was quite reasonable, so the scenario was not a walkover for blue. The location of the AT assets will account for blue vehicle casualties if blue is not cautious (as it should be).

I would allow for more time to cautious players. I found myself constantly checking the time remaining and gauging my progress but didn't feel the time pinch, but I know that some players are going to feel that pinch and be more reckless to finish in time.

My two coppers worth.

[Paper Tiger]

Hi again

I am glad to hear that you're considering chnging the initial OB. With the exception of the Sniper unit, I don't really consider any of the non-platoon HQ units to be combat units. They are the brains of the outfit, guiding the organs of action, the platoons and their rides. And of course, providing C2 links. Therefore, I like to keep them well behind my infantry and the action. I do not want to have them in the front wave on an assault on a defended objective.

I'm also glad that you'll sub the engineer platoon for a second infanty platoon. I assume that the engineers are part of the core forces, right? In which case, they will be needed later for the inevitable fighting in built up areas. To use them in this role is a waste and I am reluctant to use such important units in an action they are unsuited to. Unless you are going to stick in lots of mines of course. But even then, they should come on later.

With regards to artillery and the opening barrage. The player has no real intel on enemy dispositions so he's going to have to take a chance using one. If he chooses to put a barrage down on the border crossing he will have wasted it and held up his advance as well. So the AI side is the winner there. Perhaps you are worried that the player will restart the mission and use this 'intel' to plot a pre-planned atillery strike though. Unless you create a second AI set up plan, that will always be a major problem so it's best just to ignore it and let the player do what he's going to do.

Finally, how to stop the AI from surrendering? You could improve the morale level of the defenders for a start. However, this is not something you should do lightly as it will change the way the mission plays out. If you improve morale, you may wish to reduce the REDFor slightly. You can also keep RED in the fight longer if you omit the vehicles from the OB. Vehicles contribute more points to the surrender threshold than infantry do, a LOT more.

[souldierz]

Hope the snow's not too deep over there.

Its not bad lol,especially when the snowplow comes by clearing the streets and leaves a 3 foot linear mound of snow at the end of the driveway you just shoveled:mad:.

Finished the 3rd Mission- Urum As Sughra

SPOILER

2 vehicles destroyed and 1 was badly damaged.

There's not to much i would change about this mission except 1 thing that i'll mention later.I really liked this mission as well and thought it to be a great map.It was just on the edge of being to laggy, but luckily it was just a little lag and it got better in very short time as the game proceeded, it was still playable and still enjoyable.

I have no idea where to start in describing how it all went down, so many things took place and I like how the mission played out.The enemy Infantry in the city would withdraw to the houses behind them if things got to hot, leaving me to constantly have to fight almost every single house, eventually pushing the enemy out of the houses and then eventually out of the city and into open areas where they got cut down as they tried to flee.It was a very impressive urban fight and as the enemy withdrew from some of their positions, they ended up rallying at the same areas with some other Syrian forces forming a tough pocket of resistance inside the city.

To get a foothold on the city I called in Mortar smoke and found that I didn't have much of a choice and had to also deploy vehicle smoke.The mission started with the Brits practically in the city and i knew an RPG would hit me right off the bat as soon as i hit the GO button.8th Platoon and 9th platoon were tasked to get a foot hold in the city by setting up positions in the houses in front of the reinforcement area and also to secure the area for Brit reinforcements, so the reinforcements wouldn't take fire when they came into the area of operation.As they were setting up, an RPG took out 1 of the warrior vehicles.The crew was fine and the house got leveled in retaliation.The plan was to secure the whole West side of the city before pushing East.As each platoon and reinforcements came onto the map.They were used to stretch out the British lines to the South along the West end of town.The line formation when all infantry reinforcements arrived was in this order, from North to South along the west end of the City in the houses,it went 8th Platoon and 9th Platoon securing the Northern flank in houses,7th Platoon and 2nd Platoon securing the line formations center in houses, 3rd Platoon and 1st platoon securing the South flank in houses.From these positions, all platoons were tasked to push East from their positions with the help of vehicles and to halt at the east side of the city holding and securing the main road that's formed like a wedge.So from a line formation at the West end of the city,the Brits moved East through the city and then halt in a Wedge formation as the city is designed.

8th platoon and 9th platoon didn't have to push far, but got their share of action by securing a foothold on the city and by constantly engaging enemies trying to rush across the North East field.When i saw Syrian troops trying to rush across the field North of the Regional police, i called Mortars to do a linear strike against the trench they were running to.Air support was also called in to target anything around the regional police area and to target and level the regional police buildings wiping most of it off the map.Those Syrian troops in the field North of regional police area were caught near the trench and massacred by the mortars and also by the 2 air strikes that targeted them.Near the trench there were around 35 or so Syrian corpses as a result of the mortars and air strikes.

In the city as the firefight raged on, the Syrian forces would do something I found to be very cool and I got to give much praise to BFC for putting in the squad withdraw feature when they are under heavy fire.

When enemies were spotted in the buildings I used the vehicles to lay down area fire on the house, on whatever floor that was needed.When my vehicles stopped to reload, most of the time the enemy slipped out the back door and what would amaze me is the fact that I would go into many buildings and there would be little to no bodies.In some cases it played out like this.I would area fire on a building for a while then hold fire thinking the enemy is dead or gone, but some weren't gone,It would seem like the enemy would finish doing buddy aid on their comrades since they weren't under fire,then get up and take a shot.I then would hit the building hard with vehicle fire again.Vehicle would reload and enemies would slip out the back as it reloaded.When my forces finally got to some of these buildings that had fierce resistance, there were no bodies to be found.Some of the Syrian bodies could be seen on the streets but hardly ever in the buildings.

Most of the enemy withdrew to the South of the Market spot and just East of the Summer Palace.In that area East of the Summer Palace the Syrians put up the most resistance and at one point I had a lot of Syrians trapped in a couple buildings and I tried to form a V shape formation to catch them so i didn't need to constantly chase them through the city, but I was unsuccessful and some managed to slip back towards the East end objective running through a hail of gunfire.

After much Urban fighting and after 1st Platoon secured the factory and the pioneers secured and held the Summer Palace,British forces continued to advanced East through the city and most of the enemy had now been pushed right out of the city itself.Some tried to escape by pulling back through the bush's beside the road near the East end objective, but that's where all Syrian city forces met their end.Some ran into the open and were gunned down while others held their ground and fought from the bush's.Eventually they were also gunned down and completely wiped out.The city was now under British Control with about 40+ minutes left on the clock.

At this point I got the Challenger tanks to form a line (more of a broken line) in front of the city near houses and they proceeded to pick of armour and inf that came in view.I also had snipers,FO and Jav teams act as buddy teams and had them holding top floors of various buildings to get a clear view and shot at any vehicle and inf moving to the city.After hitting and suspecting that all Syrian tanks were destroyed and the Syrian assault was dealt a severe blow, I organized a final push with the Challenger tanks and 1st Platoon.I had 1st Platoon mounted and ready to follow and sweep all buildings in the East area of operation behind the Challengers as they pushed forward, but then the Syrians Surrendered when my challenger tanks were close to them with 19 minutes and 13 seconds left.

I would rate this mission as great, but there is one part in the mission that I did not like one bit.I love the mission as is and think its another spectacular map that I enjoyed tremendously, but I have to say I did not like the Syrian reinforcements that appeared onto the map in the North end of the city near the water surrounded by a small wall(a fountain I presume).I had Warrior vehicles there covering the area and out of nowhere,what seemed to be a Syrian Platoon had just appeared 20-30 meters away from my vehicles launching 2 RPGs simultaneously at my Warrior vehicles the second they appeared.One was destroyed and gave me a further 6 maybe 7 casualties because I had a C2 squad in the vehicle with the crew and no one got out.After a brief exchange of gunfire that Syrian Platoon was wiped out.I think those Syrian forces should appear somewhere else and then try to make there way to that location.Plus on top of that just a few minutes earlier, I had a sniper team at that very location, but then moved them somewhere else before the Syrians reinforcements spawned.I think it's kind of silly to have the enemy spawn on top of your troops or 30 meters away, so I feel that should be changed.I understand your going for an element of surprise, but it doesn't seem or feel right the way it is.

Besides that red reinforcement hick up,I can honestly say you did a great job and I am personally really enjoying this British Campaign you created.Your maps are well done, very well done, in my opinion,I'll also post the results for the other 2 remaining missions when I complete them.

Edit:On another note, the civilian density was marked as moderate.Thinking back on the action I can't help but feel that there would have been many civilian casualties as a result of this assault.I don't think the British would have come out of this one winning any hearts and minds, but rather losing a lot of support.They won the battle, but I'm sure the collateral damage would have been to high resulting in the unravel of their victory and public opinion.

Here's a pic of the Syrian army that was left on the field after the battle.The Infantry near the regional police area took a beating and have no more then 2 men in their squads and are injured and taking fire.The Syrian teams you see near the one Challenger Tank at the mine area had no RPGs and are the only full strength forces, as well as the squads in the building in the mine area, but they were about to get destroyed by the Challenger tank.

This is a pic of the 35 or so Syrians who got caught by mortars and air strikes.

[bardosy]

@BlackMoria: Thanks for the feedback!

About mines: Maybe I cannot describe the situation in the briefings. Try to imagine: Syria is attacked by USA from Iraq (TF Thunder - official campaign) and Turkey (TF Narwick - my previous campaign). They didn't expect an attack from here. But when the british mobilize at the Turkish side, it was too late and syrian border guards flee. Only non-regular fanatics try to hold the Brits and - far from the border - a regular quick reaction force is heading to the border.

The border guards (and other regular troopers) had no time and equipment to lay mines in a border station what is in a border of an other islam country.

The irregulars has only IED, but no mines.

And game in aspect: I don't want to blow up the player in the first mission. As a campaign designer, I always try to create the first mission to easy and fun. If I - as a player - get frustrated in a first mission of a campaign, I have a chance to quit and play something else...

Holding the border station: you're right! I will mentioned it in the briefing. It's very important to hold the station to keep the supply way open (and this is the main objective for syrians to recapture).

@Paper Tiger: the public transport is in strike now here, so I arrived at home very late and no time for CMSF, but I hope I can do the changes tonight and report tommorrow what I do.

@souldierz: Thanks for the very enjoyable and detailed description of your fight! It's great to read how somebody play through a mission, what I designed. And what tactics he used. It's very good!

I really understand what you felt about the immediately insurgence reincforcement. I always felt it's not a good idea, but I want a non frontal, but flanked attack by irregulars. I thought they are not really strong and they can suprise the player, but not caused too much casuality. My only idea is to relocate their sturtup area to the other (South) side of the map, near the factory. It's far away from the british setup area. But it's still a problem, if player hold the factory by troops. But I guess, it's better than now. What do you think?

[BlackMoria]

Second mission feedback. This mission is still in progress but I wanted to address some burning issues I have this one. Let's just say that my experience with this scenario so far is very different than souldierz.

I found it frustrating and annoying and it all comes down to one point - the setup.

Here are my issues with the setup.

Blue starts with no arty or air to start.

Blue starts 200 metres from the edge of a village filled with enemy fighters, RPGs, and snipers with NO COVER except their vehicles. No matter how I arranged the blue forces, within two minutes of the start of the mission, the blue light skinned vehicles have been shot up with casualties and are reversing meaninglessly to cover that doesn't exit. The IFVs have usually taken a few vehicles casualties at this point. And the Syrian artillery is starting to drop in the setup area. All the first two minutes and it doesn't get any better....

Try as I might, the outcome is the same -the only option that did work was to stampede the entire force into the gap between the two hills and then try to reorganize the mess to carry on.

For the mission at hand, the blue force at start is simply inadequate for the task. Souldierz has stated he had to use vehicle smoke to advance into the village, that he had to wait for reinforcements and the fight for the village took the bulk of the game time. This tells me that blue is too light on the ground. Start up forces are 40% light skinned vehicles and there is only a infantry platoon, which is insufficent for the task at hand, which is, in essence, an assault! Sitting 200-300 metres from hostiles with RPGs without cover for your forces and waiting for sufficent reinforcements to clear out the village is not tactically sound and not fun from a game point of view.

If the intention was to make a fun scenario, the objective was missed IMHO. The setup and the start of the mission frustrated me and despite trying about a dozen different game starts, I just can't make any headway into the village, can't effectively bypass the village without taking flank or rear RPGs shots and given the enemy reinforcement into the village and where the blue reinforcement come in, I can't ignore it and push on for the end point.

I don't frustrate easy but I was frustrated and I am certain, others will be as well.

Suggested fixes:

Option 1: Keep the blue forces as is but give blue artillery and/or air support at the start.

Option 2: Drop the Jackal recce and other light skinned vehicles and replace with two more platoons of infantry and their mounts, for a full company at start. The fight for the village is an assault mission and recce as no place in starting fight as currently configured except as flank security. Starting with the tanks on map instead of as reinforcements is also an option.

Options 3: Give blue defensive terrain so the dying doesn't start seconds into the game. Part if not most of the blue startup area should have some cover or dead ground.

Option 4: Some combination of the above.

There are some good points. The map is fabulous and plenty of room for manuever and making options once you get clear of the village at the start point. I haven't been able to play it out to appreciate the AI plan since I am held up with the intial frustration of the game start and getting clear of the village.

I will post more on scenario two when I can. The syrians in the village and I are going into round 13 and I hope I win through this time.

[BlackMoria]

Ok, managed to complete the second scenario. I must of had a string of evil luck on the attempts before because I got nailed repeatly but this time around, I must have been charmed because the attack on the village went a whole lot smoother as most of the inital RPG shots missed. And area firing the crap out of any building which showed enemy helped. Once I seized the village and reinforced, the going through the rest of the scenario was relatively easy and it just a matter of working through the forest to the exit point.

I stand by my original statement about the issues I have with the setup. The first five minutes will be swingy as it stands because of the points I raised in my proceeding post. One shouldn't resort to gamey tactics like massive vehicle smoke screens or area firing every building in sight to win through.

Thoughts on the rest of the scenario. Not my cup of tea as I think there is insufficent infantry to push bush for 3/4 of the map. The only reason the going was easy for me was the syrian reinforcements walked piecemeal into my pixeltruppen rather than the other way around. If the syrians decided to lay in ambush rather in advance towards the village, it could have gotten real ugly for blue infantry and engineers as they took losses after contact after contact.

That is NOT a slam of the scenario. The map is very good, the dread of walking the woods looking for the enemy and hoping you get to shoot first will have most people twitching in anticipation. I didn't like the scenario simply as a personal preference as I hate close quarters 'jungle' like warfare. But I can see that this battle will appeal to others. And you don't always get to pick the ground to fight on as a commander, so you deal with the cards you are dealt - sometime you have to take a walk in the woods, with bad guys with AKs seeming behind every tree.

[souldierz]

Bardosy,

(This could be a SPOILER)

I was thinking about those Syrian irregular reinforcements and after much thought, I concluded to myself that it may be best not to make any Syrians suddenly appear in the city at any time in any place.When it comes down to it, the player can be anywhere at anytime in the city and the probability that the Syrian irregulars would spawn on British troops is very high.I understand that you might want to simulate it as a bunch of people rallying together to catch the envading forces off guard and to fight them in the city,I would probably want to do the same(that or get the hell out of Dodge would be the better choice), but I would not decide to make my intentions known or shoot or even form up a squad when there's practically a whole British Company outside my door and around every corner and practically in every window.

However I do think it might be good to place those insurgents on the South end of the city like you said, but not in the factory.What was concerning me as I stretched my lines out towards the South was hitting fierce resistance in the southern houses.If you put them in the houses west of the factory and on the south end of the city for the beginning of the game(where exactly is up to you), I think it would be reasonable and they still would be able to catch the British player off guard.The civilian density was modest so Uncon units should be tougher to spot.It could also prevent the player from having a easy run to the factory if he chooses to assault it from the West.

It's not really what I would like to suggest i think the previous plan mentioned above would be a lot better, But If they are forced to come in as reinforcements then maybe a good spot for them could be at the houses just west of the surface mine area.The troops that are currently there had no RPG's so there was nothing they could do against tanks or vehicles.Those men might need another assignment if the uncons take over,but if not I'd suggest you give the current forces a couple RPG's and or maybe a sniper.I suspected men there but they never fired a shot when I played.

The other thing I remembered was the pleasant surprise i got when i knocked down a wall at the mine area and got the drop on 2 ATGM teams.They both had there backs to the challenger when he approached the gap in the wall.The ATGM's never had a chance and i think it would be best if you could find them a position that will allow them to get eyes on the city area.The 5 Challenger's were left unchallenged when they set up positions on the outside of the city and I think some ATGM's will make the player think twice about putting men in the upper floors as well as placing the tanks out of the city.

I also agree with Paper Tigers statements.I try to adapt and use whatever forces is giving at the time and I find that to be part of the challenge also, but to give the player the correct forces at the correct time with the proper settings to proceed with the mission is a reality I would like to see and start with.I make due with what is, but I would do what Paper Tiger has suggested.Makes it more realistic when commanding the units:).

With it all said and done, It's all up to you on how the Syrian defense is established.You set them up and I'll knock them down, gladly:D.

[bardosy]

Guys, I made changes:

-------***POSSIBLE SPOILER***----------

Changelog (13.01.2010):

* mission #1

- A company's mortar move to the setup forces from the reinforcement 1 (10min).

- A/3 platoon in the setup forces

- Remove Assault Engineers from the forces

- Manouvre Co HQ move into reinforcement 2 (5min).

* mission #2

- Add 30 minutes (now it's 2 hours gameplay)

- Add a new syrian wave of 2 platoons at 55min, and advance to the Brits in the forest.

* mission #3

- relocate the flanking insurgency to the other (South) flank

@BlackMoria

I understand you and thank you very much for the critics. Your frustration prove me, Souldierz is too hard, and if he needs more enemy in the forest, it could be disasterous for a normal player (as me). But now I put a few squads as a second syrian wave in the forest, but I add 30 mins more time to complete the objectives.

Your arty request is accepted and I will add the company's mortar to the setup forces, so player can strike the village or create a smoke screen.

About first village: I put the syrian defenders into the buildings at the far side of the village. So the player has time and space to attack. When I test this mission I left the defendless LandRovers in the startup area and syrians didn't hit them. We can assault by Warriors and Jackals (I never used this vehicle's smoke cover for assault). Of course, all armed vehicle start suppressive fire any building where syrians detected.

"most of the inital RPG shots missed" - Yes, because they are armed villigers.

The first row of buildings are empty and it's a very good cover to protect the vehicles and good start to infantry for a house-to-house fight.

The map was created by actual satelite image from google. I can create a small forest to cover the startup area, but it could be unrealistic.

If I understand you, you suggested me options... Is it enough if I add arty to the startup?

About Jackals: you're right, it's too light and I just add them to the fight in the forest, so no need their presence in the first 40 minutes. But when I tested the mission I found them very useful: They can run fast forward to the first row of buildings and start suppressive fire, while the slower Warriors catch up.

But I accept, your advice... I will remove a few Jackals from the startup force and put them in a later reinforcement. But I will leave only two Jackals in the startup, because of their useful help. Is it OK?

"I didn't like the scenario simply as a personal preference as I hate close quarters 'jungle' like warfare."

I understand, and I promise, the other mission will be more conservative. I was also frustrated in my own scenario when I advance in the forest, but I like the idea, because it's very new in CMSF.

I'm really thankful for your feedback! I always study something about the mission editing, if I read critics! Don't worry because I'll not modify the startup area, but I will keep in my mind this advice when I create new ones.

@souldierz

Finally I spred the insurgence: I put one squad in the most shouthern factory building and the other squads are also put South but in buildings or in cover of building. They are not concentrate (as they was in the well), so they will be lighter.

The mine is not too good, because it's in the front. The regulars always come from the front, but I want to simulate the armed civilian in your back.

ATGMs: this map is too flat and to short. If I put the ATGM in the most eastern edge of the map, they even could kill the Warriors after the start of the scenario. And it's really frustrating.

I just put them in the mine to punish the player if he's too breave and forward with Challengers on the main road.

[Wiggum]

Hey bardosy, i liked your "Dam It" scenario for the Brits and will try this campaign soon !

[BlackMoria]

About first village: I put the syrian defenders into the buildings at the far side of the village. So the player has time and space to attack. When I test this mission I left the defendless LandRovers in the startup area and syrians didn't hit them. We can assault by Warriors and Jackals (I never used this vehicle's smoke cover for assault). Of course, all armed vehicle start suppressive fire any building where syrians detected.

I put the LandRovers over at the right side as I wanted them to make for the area between the two hills. If you setup on that side, the LandRover passengers get hit by sniper fire and the drivers start trying to reverse all over the place (usually into some more small arms fire)

most of the inital RPG shots missed" - Yes, because they are armed villigers

They are damn lucky villagers because the first six times I tried this, I would have between 2 to 3 Warriors getting smoked due to flank shots.

The map was created by actual satelite image from google. I can create a small forest to cover the startup area, but it could be unrealistic.

Totally understand you are for authentic realistic ground so leave the ground as it is.

If I understand you, you suggested me options... Is it enough if I add arty to the startup?

Yes, it would be all I need.

About Jackals: you're right, it's too light and I just add them to the fight in the forest, so no need their presence in the first 40 minutes. But when I tested the mission I found them very useful: They can run fast forward to the first row of buildings and start suppressive fire, while the slower Warriors catch up.

But I accept, your advice... I will remove a few Jackals from the startup force and put them in a later reinforcement. But I will leave only two Jackals in the startup, because of their useful help. Is it OK?

I understand you find Jackals useful during your own playtest and it is your scenario so you can do with them what you will. My personal experience during the scenario is the Jackals occupants take small arms hits and in short time, the crew is either incapacitated or bails the vehicle.

In real life, for a operation like this, the Jackals would be screening the flanks and doing route recce because of their speed and manuever. That said, you can keep them in the setup - others will appreciate their utility even if I concerns about their use in this operation and their vulnerability. It a preference thing.

While I may not have overall have liked the scenario because it is not my cup of tea as the brits say, I do appreciate the map and the effort into making a very interesting scenario which is quite different from the normal fare. It is a good scenario despite my grumbling.