Coffins

[gautrek]

I have been watching the news over here lately.They have been going on about the number of troops getting killed in Afghanistan(both UK and yanks).

Now i have seen something which interests me.If you see photo of any Brit coffins being unloaded/carried by fellow troops they are all draped in the union flag and carried on the shoulders.When they march off the ramp they have one guy in front walking backwards who puts his hand on the front of the coffin to help steady it.All the time the coffin is carried on the shoulders of 6 guys.As happens if you go to a "normal" funeral for a non military guy.

After seeing a few images and video shots of the same thing happening in the states i have a question.Over there they seem to carry the coffin at about waist height.Is this a military thing over there or is this normal for any funeral?

[bitchen frizzy]

That's normal for most U.S. funerals. The coffin on the shoulders is the older tradition, I think. I don't know why it's different in the U.S. Could be that the typical U.S. coffin is very heavy. You can see in the picture a typical U.S. coffin, which is large and ornate.

[JonS]

Could be that the typical U.S. coffin is very heavy. You can see in the picture a typical U.S. coffin, which is large and ornate.

Could be (although coffins are generally heavy - there is a body in there, after all), but in that case it'd make even more sense to carry them at the shoulder.

[bitchen frizzy]

In the U.S., the coffin can easily weigh more than the body within it. My speculation is that back injuries and dropping the coffin are a concern with that much weight. I do mean "very" when I say "very heavy," and I've lugged a few of them in my time.

I do know that in the U.S. the coffin is generally carried at the waist, whatever the reason.

[bitchen frizzy]

Found a link:

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Leatherneck_Last_0404,00.html

Apparently, at a formal military funeral in the U.S., the bearers actually will carry the casket at the shoulder. Didn't know that. Not done at civilian funerals.

Casket weight, according to the article, is 350 lb (160 kg) or more.

[gautrek]

Could be (although coffins are generally heavy - there is a body in there, after all), but in that case it'd make even more sense to carry them at the shoulder.

I agree with this.plus i saw a vid of one being carried today and the 6 guys looked like they were struggling to carry it.It easier to carry it at shoulder height as 6 people are the norm as pall bearers over here.

This makes more sense if you must carry one without using your shoulders.But doing it with bent arms just seems a strange thing to do

[bitchen frizzy]

Carrying it at shoulder height might be easier. Getting it to and from shoulder height is the problem. And the pallbearer usually isn't a Marine in top physical condition, as you can see from the third photo.

And then there's the problem of going up stairs into the church, or across the lawn at the cemetery... trip, oops, someone gets a 200 kg coffin on top of them, and a funeral of their own.

[gunnergoz]

Perhaps the US "low carry" has evolved in practice due to the fact that I've seen the US military also use female pall bearers and this may be a concession to their relative stature, if not strength. As for the USMC practice, well we all know how traditional they remain so an all male detail may be their preference.

Just a guess on my part...

[bitchen frizzy]

U.S. tradition is strongly in favor of male pallbearers, and low carry is the norm for most funerals. It has been that way since before women were asked to be pallbearers.

Coffins in the U.S. have evolved from simple pine boxes to enormously heavy metal boxes with ornate fittings. Over the same time, tradition in the U.S. has shifted from shoulder carry to low carry. Not a coincidence.

[Stalins Organ]

My grandfather had his coffin carried at shoulder height by his 6 sons (all in their 50's and 60's at the time) - they just used an elevating stand in the church to get it up there!

[Sergei]

It seems like the British coffin doesn't have any handles, or any ledge to grab from. Therefore it would be nearly impossible to carry it at waist height. Around here coffins usually, in my thankfully limited experience, don't have handles either, they are carried at waist height with lines that are also used to lower the coffin to grave.

This is a Finnish peacekeeper who died in Afghanistan:

Here is the same peacekeeper at the cemetery.

I have no idea of why they didn't just carry the coffin all the way. Maybe it was a long way.

[gautrek]

It seems like the British coffin doesn't have any handles, or any ledge to grab from. Therefore it would be nearly impossible to carry it at waist height.

I think that is down to choice most coffins i have seen have had handles.Even my mates wicker coffin had them.

[Other Means]

In Britain coffins are carried feet first. My Dad said that was so they couldn't find their way back.

[Sergei]

I think that is down to choice most coffins i have seen have had handles.Even my mates wicker coffin had them.

I was referring to the coffin in the 1st photo, though. You have to carry that model at shoulder.

Other Means,

usually it works better if you wait for the buried to be dead. Other than that, try nailing the lid shut so the bugger can't see where he's taken to?

[Tero]

By Sergei

I was referring to the coffin in the 1st photo, though. You have to carry that model at shoulder.

My father and mother-in-law were both cremated but the coffins were without handles. In fact, there were no coffins with handles available in the funeral parlour.

usually it works better if you wait for the buried to be dead. Other than that, try nailing the lid shut so the bugger can't see where he's taken to?

That is true. But we do have the custom of not carting living people off (in hospitals for example) feet first.