N3rull Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I'm sorry for posting so much lately, but I'm quite excited about eos ;p. I have a few question I haven't found an answer to. 1. Population and cities. I have noticed that using artillery against a city may bring its population down, even though it doesn't say that it kills population in its combat charts. I know it makes sense, but this raises some questions about this particular aspect of the combat mechanics: What exactly can kill population? At what rate? What will not cause civilian casualties? Is the population loss permanent or does it recover over time? Or is there any extra way to bring the pop (not production) back up? If it is permanent, bombarding enemy cities into oblivion will completely disable the opponent forever, because he won't be able to build anything - game over, right? Is that why strat bombers die so easily? 2. Subs. No unit that I've seen has positive (above zero) submarine sight range. Is there any way whatsoever to discover a submarine that doesn't want to fight (i.e. has "No Field Orders" set)? 3. Rulesets. I know we will have a lot of power over the rules with the ruleset editor. But what actually are the limits? Is it true we will be able to redesign the research tree? Is it true we will be able to redesign the unit roster? If so, will we be able to supply the game with out own icons for units? Is it true we will be able to fully control all unit statistics? Will we be able to control stuff from point 1. of this thread? I would like to figure out the limits of this system. Will the below be possible (not that I really want that in the game, I'm just wondering if it would be possible)? + create new unit type - commando; + create a unit of commando type (say, Navy SEALs) + give class 4/5/.. submarine the ability to transport and unload a commando class unit (like a transport) ++ if yes, would it be possible to give the sub a limit of up to one commando type unit and up to two missiles (so that the sub can take 1 commando and 2 missiles but not three missiles or three commando units)? + create an air unit called Blackhawk that has a movement rate o 100 and a total range of 500. (like a very long range zeppelin) If yes, would it be possible to: ++ let the Blackhawk transport one commando class unit ++ give the blackhawk an option to refuel on carriers whilst having commandos on board ++ give the blackhawk an ability to transfer that said commando unit to a submarine (which is capable of carrying them) while the sub is at sea (for example by flying the blackhawk over the sub and moving the commandos from the blackhawk to the sub) I know these are a lot of questions but I am just so damn curious. Delete the thread if you think it's spam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 As for question 1, I'm sure I've seen cities grow slowly over time, but I don't know how to promote this. Obviously plenty of things make them shrink. I'd like to see the ruleset editor open in the beta, considering the license expires at the end of october, its not like it'll give the game unlimited replayability and it would sure help with the "testing" we are doing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N3rull Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 Well you do upgrade your cities with factories, robotic factories, nuclear power plants and shipyards/barracks for increased production, but is their population really affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Re 2, check out destroyers and cruisers. They should be able to spot subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N3rull Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'm looking for answers, not theories. I had double checked all naval units and even tac bombers and spy planes. None of them has submarine sight range above zero. I wouldn't ask that question if the answer was that obvious. edit. I hav checked all top class units in the game now. None can spot subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich12545 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'm looking for answers, not theories. I had double checked all naval units and even tac bombers and spy planes. None of them has submarine sight range above zero. I wouldn't ask that question if the answer was that obvious. edit. I hav checked all top class units in the game now. None can spot subs. Then why don't you just report it. It's an error. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N3rull Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Maybe it isn't? After all, if a submarine isn't sailing anywhere and is just ordered to be there and not move, a Destroyer can pretty much sail over it and never know it's there. Subs are slow and weak. Maybe it's not a bug, because otherwise they would be useless? Finally, maybe there is some default range at which units see each other regardless of whether they can detect one another in the charts. Like a rule that when units get right next to each other, they will reveal themselves. I don't know if the AI has ever made a sub and I don't know if I sailed over it or not. I didn't have the time to check it online. I don't know - so I'm asking. You don't know either. Brit knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm sorry for posting so much lately, but I'm quite excited about eos ;p. I have a few question I haven't found an answer to. 1. Population and cities. I have noticed that using artillery against a city may bring its population down, even though it doesn't say that it kills population in its combat charts. I know it makes sense, but this raises some questions about this particular aspect of the combat mechanics: What exactly can kill population? At what rate? What will not cause civilian casualties? I just noticed that the information on this is not very clear. If you look at the unit description (in the city-build window or double-click a unit), if you scroll down to "Attack" and "vs City" it will give you a number like "0.5 / 0.1" for Artillery (Class 1). A successful attack (which happens on average 0.5 times within one turn will kill 0.1 population). I should make this more clear, because even I was confused when I first glanced at the numbers since there's no clear description. Artillery, strategic bombers, missiles, nukes can all kill population. Infantry, Tanks, ships do not kill population. Is the population loss permanent or does it recover over time? I had intended on having slow population growth in cities, but right now, there is no population growth. Or is there any extra way to bring the pop (not production) back up? If it is permanent, bombarding enemy cities into oblivion will completely disable the opponent forever, because he won't be able to build anything - game over, right? True. Cities cannot drop below 1 population, though. 2. Subs. No unit that I've seen has positive (above zero) submarine sight range. Is there any way whatsoever to discover a submarine that doesn't want to fight (i.e. has "No Field Orders" set)? Weird. I just looked, and you're right. Destroyers, Submarines, and Cruisers are all supposed to see submarines (at a reduced range from how far they can see other units). The Official 1940 ruleset has submarine-detection ranges for those units, but the 1900-2030 ruleset doesn't. I wonder if there was a bug saving the submarine view-range in the rules editor. I didn't intend to have a view range of 0. 3. Rulesets. I know we will have a lot of power over the rules with the ruleset editor. But what actually are the limits? Is it true we will be able to redesign the research tree? Yes, you can create technologies, those technologies can be set to allow production of certain units, and you can 'wire' the technology tree together in any way you want. I split the technologies into 'basic technology' (which appears in multiple places in the tech tree - like "Electronics") and applied technologies (which turn-on the ability to build certain units and city improvements, and only appear once in the tech tree). Is it true we will be able to redesign the unit roster? Yes, you can drop completely new units into the game with totally different stats. You could, for example, create a whole new ruleset that setup rules for the ancient middle east (technologies and units appropriate to the period) or medieval europe. Right now, there's no convenient way to add new unit images/animations/sounds, though - which is a limiting factor. Also, I guess I'd need to allow for customized resources (oil isn't going to be very useful in ancient times). If so, will we be able to supply the game with out own icons for units? I haven't opened that part of the game yet, but I'd like unit images/animations/sounds to be uploadable just like maps and scenarios. Right now, you can't add units and share them with people. (Technically, you could look at the system I use for storing units currently. It's not that difficult to see how I organize the unit images/animations.) Ideally, someone could create unit images/animations and a new ruleset. Then, upload the images and the ruleset. Anyone downloading the ruleset (which has dependencies on those unit images) and the images would auto-download with the rules. Is it true we will be able to fully control all unit statistics? Yes. Will we be able to control stuff from point 1. of this thread? Yes. I would like to figure out the limits of this system. Will the below be possible (not that I really want that in the game, I'm just wondering if it would be possible)? + create new unit type - commando; Yes. + create a unit of commando type (say, Navy SEALs) Yes. + give class 4/5/.. submarine the ability to transport and unload a commando class unit (like a transport) Yes. ++ if yes, would it be possible to give the sub a limit of up to one commando type unit and up to two missiles (so that the sub can take 1 commando and 2 missiles but not three missiles or three commando units)? Units (e.g. a submarine) have a set amount of "container space". Each unit has a size. You can put units (e.g. missiles, commandos) into the container (submarine) until it is full. In this example, you might set a commando unit to use-up 1 space, and your missile to use-up 1 space. If your submarine has 3 space, then the player can put any mixture of commandos or missiles (i.e. 3 commandos, 3 missiles, or some combination). + create an air unit called Blackhawk that has a movement rate o 100 and a total range of 500. (like a very long range zeppelin) Yes. If yes, would it be possible to: ++ let the Blackhawk transport one commando class unit Yes. ++ give the blackhawk an option to refuel on carriers whilst having commandos on board Yes. ++ give the blackhawk an ability to transfer that said commando unit to a submarine (which is capable of carrying them) while the sub is at sea (for example by flying the blackhawk over the sub and moving the commandos from the blackhawk to the sub) No. The blackhawk would have to be able to land on the other unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N3rull Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 Awesome! More or less as I hoped . Thank you very much. If sub sight range is a bug and subs/destroyers/cruisers are supposed to see subs, please consider balancing the submarine's speed so that it can catch at least transport ships. Again, thank you for this informative reply. Now I know exactly which arguments I can use when I wanna make my friends get EoS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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