gunnergoz Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 I was reading about the tragedy on Macedonia's lake Ohrid, where a tour boat suddenly sank, taking 15 lives. A couple of news articles mentioned that one theory was that a "hawser" used to keep the boat balanced, accidentally broke. It is known that the captain and passengers heard a loud "bang" sound from aft and then the craft sank in just a moment or two, apparently split in two. It was 90 feet long and built in 1924 in Germany. I've never heard of a "hawser" keeping a boat balanced before - anyone here have a clue about what they are referring to? I could see a catastrophic hull failure causing such an accident, but a "hawser?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 A piece of rope? The only way I can see it keeping the boat in trim is by hanging a large weight over the side to counter some weird mis-stowage problem. If, however, the "hawser" was the back stay for the mast (if the boat had a mast, etc.), and it broke, it is possible the the movement of the bottom of the mast following could split the (old) hull. It'd have to take out the keel though, wouldn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 A piece of rope? The only way I can see it keeping the boat in trim is by hanging a large weight over the side to counter some weird mis-stowage problem. If, however, the "hawser" was the back stay for the mast (if the boat had a mast, etc.), and it broke, it is possible the the movement of the bottom of the mast following could split the (old) hull. It'd have to take out the keel though, wouldn't it? Anybody calling a back stay a hawser would be a real lubber. To answer your question about the mast, I guess if the boat was already poorly balanced and the mast fell over the side that was more heavily weighted, that might make it take on a fatal list. But nothing in what gunner is reporting suggests that's what happened. Gunner, is there anything else in the article that might provide a clue? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_the_wino Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Provding sumfink gunnergoz couldn't be bothered with...a linky with pics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Nice linky, nice pics. No mast so that hypothesis is no good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Conceivably ropes, cables, etc could literally be holding it together in the same manner we are probably familiar with for the ol' "stringbag" aircraft up to and including some modern ones. If one broke while under strain it might result in structural failure. I'm sure the investigation will reveal the problem tho. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Well an 85 year old boat maintained by Macedonians. It would't surprise me if the hawser (if the journalist has even got that right) was actually keeping the boat together by pulling against keel or hull sag. For the boat to go down that quickly it sounds like the keel just snapped in half. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 The boat sank in relatively shallow water and is sitting upright in the photo. The forward part looks pretty much intact. Pity the article did not include a view of the stern. Until the wreckage has been examined and reported on, it's kind of pointless for us to speculate on what happened. It could have been anything from a small explosive device blowing a hole in the hull to a prop shaft snapping in such a way as to allow water to enter the hull. All those though strike me as unlikely as does the snapped "hawser" theory. I am wondering how thorough the investigation is going to be. How much trouble are the authorities willing to go to in order to firmly establish the cause? One might expect an initial flurry of activity due to the international aspects, but then after the dignitaries go home, the bodies are buried, and the story drops out of the news for the whole thing to peter out. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Given that most of the casualties are Bulgarian I imagine they will do quite a lot to ensure that responsibility is "fairly" determined in order to avoid any repercusions on their tourist industry! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 When did Bulgarians become respectable, let alone important? Just asking... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Technically, a "hawser" is a heavy line used specifically for mooring or towing a craft. The hawser passes through a hawsehole, hence the name... so I'm a bit perplexed as to what is meant here as well. If the boat were moored by multiple lines at the time of the accident, it's conceivable that one hawser suddenly failing could cause a sudden stress or imbalance that could sink the boat, but from the description, it sounds like the boat was underway at the time of the accident. So my guess is that "hawser" is being used here more generically, to mean any old heavy line, in which case any of a number of things could have happened -- for example, if the "hawser" was used to secure a piece of heavy equipment or something, and it suddenly broke loose, this could definitely lead to bad things. As noted, though, this is "lubber" usage... my grandfather (Annapolis '44) would probably roll over in his grave I used the word in that way. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 ...any of a number of things could have happened -- for example, if the "hawser" was used to secure a piece of heavy equipment or something... One wonders what heavy equipment would be doing on a tour boat, but then this is the Balkans we are talking about, so one must not make hasty assumptions... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I think the most obvious explanation is doubtful reportage, or perhaps a little more charitably that they had language issues. No? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Being Macedonia, it could have involved prostitutes in large numbers. So the reporter assumed that it was a 'hawser' that tipped the boat, when actually what the witness said was "The whores a got unbalanced and it tipped the boat." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well, I suppose I should apologize for the lack of links but then I was forgetting about the google-impaired among us. Excuse me for that oversight. And apparently there are also a few here who also find the matter of 15 or so innocents being drowned as something to joke about since they are only Macedonian. That's just plain boorish. But anyway, I do appreciate the efforts of some to try and answer the question. As yet there are no more details I could find about the causes. My suspicion is that the boat suffered a catastrophic hull failure but we won't know for sure until it is raised and subjected to analysis. Given that the nation's tourism industry is at stake, I think there's a better than even chance of a serious examination and report coming out of this...I may be wrong of course, but I can hope that Macedonia is not like Russia or Ukraine (which I'm more familiar with) and that corruption and dysfunctional government is not as evident as it is in those more Eastern states. Having spent plenty of time on passenger, ferry and tour boats myself (in fact, I was on a tour boat for 2 hours yesterday with my wife and mother in law enjoying a beautiful day in San Diego's harbor) I could not help but think of what I would do and feel if something like this happened while we were aboard such a boat. So my sympathies go out to the families who lost loved ones. What a terrible waste of life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_the_wino Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well, I suppose I should apologize for the lack of links but then I was forgetting about the google-impaired among us. Excuse me for that oversight. I was just giving you a hard time gunner. I had to google it because I was curious about the vessel itself, especially when folks started speaking about masts and such. And apparently there are also a few here who also find the matter of 15 or so innocents being drowned as something to joke about since they are only Macedonian. That's just plain boorish. Bulgarians, not Macedonians....if one is to pick nits. Having spent plenty of time on passenger, ferry and tour boats myself (in fact, I was on a tour boat for 2 hours yesterday with my wife and mother in law enjoying a beautiful day in San Diego's harbor) I could not help but think of what I would do and feel if something like this happened while we were aboard such a boat. So my sympathies go out to the families who lost loved ones. What a terrible waste of life. Too true. Always a good idea to scope out the location of life jackets when one boards a vessel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Reports I've seen say most of the victims are Bulgarian rather than Macedonian, and I think they've been a serious issue for Macedonia ever since independance...or maybe since 1913.......or even 350 BC...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Well, I suppose I should apologize for the lack of links but then I was forgetting about the google-impaired among us. Excuse me for that oversight. The Disciplinary Sub-Section of the Committee for Public Safety of the State Security Apparat will be contacting you soon on this matter, comrade. Do not worry, a court-appointed legal representative will be provided to you as soon as she graduates from high school. With luck you may be able to resume your normal life in ten years or so. Minus all your personal property of course, which will be confiscated to cover legal and confinement costs. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 The Disciplinary Sub-Section of the Committee for Public Safety of the State Security Apparat will be contacting you soon on this matter, comrade. Do not worry, a court-appointed legal representative will be provided to you as soon as she graduates from high school. With luck you may be able to resume your normal life in ten years or so. Minus all your personal property of course, which will be confiscated to cover legal and confinement costs. Michael Oh, goodie, will they take my bills too? And I hear there's included medical! Where do I sign up? :D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Oh, goodie, will they take my bills too? And I hear there's included medical! Where do I sign up? :D We'll let you work it off in the salt mines. Medical coverage consists of being issued one (1) Band-Aid at the beginning of your "enlistment". Use it wisely. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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