Accents

[Lets_All_Fight]

I do that too; my accent varies wildely depending on where I am and who I'm with. I'm going t the highlands tonight to visit familly and within two hours my Glasgow accent will be relplaced by an Inverness one - and a strong one at that.

More strangely, I spend a fair amount of time in Italy and although I do not really speak the language, I've been told by various friends that my accents are perfect. I can apparently do very convincing Roman, Neopolitan and rural Tuscan accents. If you asked me to do one for you, though, I wouldn't know where to begin.

[ScubaSam]

I've also found my accent changes depending on what part of the UK you're in. When visiting Scotland, "yes" gets replaced with "aye", without you even noticing. When visiting England, I tend to slow down an awful lot...mainly because people don't understand you when speaking at Northern Irish pace, aka Lightspeed.

[Paper Tiger]

I remember years ago when I lived in Aberdeen a friend explained that you could tell what part of the city people came from by the difference in their accents - and this is in a town of 250, 000! - and he was right.

Fit like min! Ah'm fae Eberdeen masell. You're right. Torry fowks spick different fae the rest o' iss.

Where did you live when you were in Aberdeen?

[stoat]

I'm playing the UK scenario and am slowly categorising the "Scots" accents.

That made me think. Do American accents sound so regional for Americans as Brit ones do to me?

I've been to the USA lots and can tell the difference between deep south and New York, but there must be differences in Southern accents perhaps discernable only to Southrons. is this true?

It is both true and untrue. There are distinct Southern accents that are discernable even to unholy nothern invaders. I am not particularly well traveled, but I've run across any number of forms of the "Southern accent." Texas has its drawl, and Southerners in Mississippi don't sound like those from Virginia. People living in southern Indiana and Illinois sound very much like people from Kentucky or Missouri, but southern Ohio has its own accent. I'm sure there is a Tennessee accent, and likely a true Southerner could tell the difference between a Virginian from the Appalachians and one from the tidewater, but my ear doesn't run across very many southerners. Others have already mentioned the Minnesotan/Dakotan accent, and the Boston, New York, and Jersey accents are well represented in American popular culture. Even Chicago has an accent (I had a shop teacher in high school who loved to say 'youse guys').

But regionality for Americans is different than UK regionality. I took a trip over to England and Wales, and I was told that one's hometown could be accurately placed to within 40 miles just by hearing their particular accent. That degree of variance is not to be found in the States. I'm from Central Illinois, so I have an acutely unremarkable accent. I could pass for a native of Kansas, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Michigan. But I've been told by New Englanders that I pronounce a few words with a discernable accent.

In addition to physical differences, American speech also differs slightly in the semantics department. There are different words for the same thing in various parts of the country. "Y'all" is an example, and I came across further examples at college in Ohio. I have cousins from California, and though their accent is only slightly different from mine, they use words in ways that would never be thought of in Middle America, such as using 'tasty' or 'sick' as a synonym for 'excellent.'

[Lets_All_Fight]

I remember years ago when I lived in Aberdeen a friend explained that you could tell what part of the city people came from by the difference in their accents - and this is in a town of 250, 000! - and he was right.

Fit like min! Ah'm fae Eberdeen masell. You're right. Torry fowks spick different fae the rest o' iss.

Where did you live when you were in Aberdeen?

Ah, yep. That brings back memories: all ye Quines an' loons!

I lived in the town centre, on Bon Accord Street, just off the west end of Union street, and then on George street (unless I'm getting confused here..) above a pub called the 'Butchers Arms.' Long time ago now, though: way back in the mid nineties.

[YankeeDog]

Being and actor, dialects/accents of English is something of a hobby of mine.

In the modern era, increasing migration and interconnectivity and also the influence of television and the movies has definitely reduced the differences between regional modes of speech. This is true in the US, UK, and other English speaking regions. But there are still substantial regional differences.

While the density of regional dialects is not as high here in the US as it is in the UK, there are still probably hundreds, if not thousands of regional dialects. For example, I was born and grew up in Vermont. I had a strong "downeast" dialect up through my teenage years, which I have largely eliminated through training. Tp outsiders, the "Downeast" dialect of my Northern New England home region is probably perceived as being of one piece. But as a native speaker born in the region, to my ear there are probably at least a dozen local variations -- Southern Vermont, Northern Vermont, French-Canadian-influenced, Northern New Hampshire, Southern New Hampshire, "Backwoods" Maine, Coastal Maine, etc.

This is true in other regions, too. I've lived in New York City for almost 15 years now, and I can now differentiate between someone who grew up in the Bronx, someone who grew up in Brooklyn, someone who grew up in the Long Island suburbs, etc.

It's also important to recognize that many dialects have migrated and changed over time. One excellent example of an American dialect that is now nearly extinct is the working-class Brooklyn dialect that was very common in the WWII era. This dialect is excellently preserved for posterity in the character of Bugs Bunny; no one speaks like Bugs Bunny anymore, but in the 1930s and 1940s, the mode of speech you hear Mel Blanc use in the classic Warner Brothers cartoons was a real, living dialect.

One distinct difference between American and British dialects is that Americans, historically and up through today, generally receive far less formal schooling in elocution than students do in the UK; there is no equivalent to "Received Pronunciation," or "RP" in the US. Many Brits will at least attempt to shift their dialect closer to RP when in formal situations. Americans have far less of a compunction to do this.

Cheers,

YD

[donnieitaly]

This is all fascinating stuff to me since accents and dialects are a bit of a hobby of mine too.

Two questions though. 1/ Has anyone noticed a Scottish type accent in the Brit accents in the British (Scots) forces yet?

2/ Do American accents in the two Yankee (Sorry <g>) sets sound "real" or recognisable to Americans as from a distinct area geographically?

[George MC]

This is all fascinating stuff to me since accents and dialects are a bit of a hobby of mine too.

Two questions though. 1/ Has anyone noticed a Scottish type accent in the Brit accents in the British (Scots) forces yet?

Aye there is - me Originally from Fife now living in the Highlands south of Inverness.

Cheers fur noo

George

[GSX]

UK accents tend to be a lot more localised than the US ones. Though this isnt always the case, it is generally the rule. It has something to do with the length of time the local population has been in that area, were talking many many generations here.

Within 50 miles of where I live in the UK there are probably 15 major and another 15 minor differentials.

On a CM note I think the UK accents are much improved over the original CM series and are better than the US ones in CMSF mainly becuase a lot of the latter seem to have been ported over directly from CM-1 and not freshly made.

[tc237]

Remember reading once (on AGEOD board IIRC) that modern US Southern accent (IIRC South Carolina) is more similar to the American Revolution Era British accent than modern British accent is.

In other words, old time British dudes would sound similar to US southerners today because the acent hasn't evolved.

Topic came up in a discussion about Canadian French and France French.

Canadian French is considered an "old" form of French.

Something like that, thoughts?

[YankeeDog]

2/ Do American accents in the two Yankee (Sorry <g>) sets sound "real" or recognisable to Americans as from a distinct area geographically?

Yes. For example, there are several sound files that are clearly spoken with a Southern drawl. Another sounds more Midwestern with flat vowels, etc.

Pegging the exact dialect of the speakers is a bit difficult because (a) most of the actual samples are very short; you usually need more than just a few words to tell whether someone is from, say, Georgia or Alabama, and ( in most of the sound files, the speakers are using a strong, authoritative "military" tone of speech, which obscures their native dialect somewhat.

In my experience, the best way to hear someone's native dialect is to hang out in a relaxed setting and talk with with them over a few drinks. Most people will try to "prettify" their speach, at least to a degree, if they think they are being recorded or listened to closely. But even highly trained speakers tend to regress to their native dialect under the influence of alcohol, especially when in a relaxed social setting.

[donnieitaly]

In other words, old time British dudes would sound similar to US southerners today because the accent hasn't evolved

Cor blimey Guvnor, I doubt that. I've actually been to South Carolina (well now I remember it was Southern North Carolina) and if Brits spoke like that originally I'll be monkey's uncle.

You'e ' aving a bath ain't cha?

[YankeeDog]

Remember reading once (on AGEOD board IIRC) that modern US Southern accent (IIRC South Carolina) is more similar to the American Revolution Era British accent than modern British accent is.

In other words, old time British dudes would sound similar to US southerners today because the acent hasn't evolved.

Topic came up in a discussion about Canadian French and France French.

Canadian French is considered an "old" form of French.

Something like that, thoughts?

The assertion I've heard (made by none other than great Brit Shakespeare expert John Barton of the RSC) is that the general lilt and cadence of what is often referred to as the American Appalachian dialect may more closely resemble the way native Brits spoke in the 16th and 17th centuries than modern British "Received Pronounciation" does.

The central Appalachian dialect is spoken in parts of North and South Carolina, but chiefly in the more mountainous, Western parts. It's very different from what folks think of today as a "Southern" dialect. Appalachian lacks the distinct, elongated drawl of the stereotypical Southern dialect.

Take it for what you will. But it's almost certainly true that Burbage and Kemp and the other actors of Shakespare's company spoke in a dialect very different from what actors of the RSC and other famous acting companies use today when performing Shakespeare. In my opinion, the Bard's poetry holds up regardless of whether it's spoken in Standard British, Standard American, or whatever else, so long as you Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounc'd it to you, trippingly on the tongue...

Cheers,

YD

[GSX]

The assertion I've heard (made by none other than great Brit Shakespeare expert John Barton of the RSC) is that the general lilt and cadence of what is often referred to as the American Appalachian dialect may more closely resemble the way native Brits spoke in the 16th and 17th centuries than modern British "Received Pronounciation" does.

The central Appalachian dialect is spoken in parts of North and South Carolina, but chiefly in the more mountainous, Western parts. It's very different from what folks think of today as a "Southern" dialect. Appalachian lacks the distinct, elongated drawl of the stereotypical Southern dialect.

Take it for what you will. But it's almost certainly true that Burbage and Kemp and the other actors of Shakespare's company spoke in a dialect very different from what actors of the RSC and other famous acting companies use today when performing Shakespeare. In my opinion, the Bard's poetry holds up regardless of whether it's spoken in Standard British, Standard American, or whatever else, so long as you Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounc'd it to you, trippingly on the tongue...

Cheers,

YD

Good point, but I think its consufing to imagine that everyone today in the UK should talk like the Queen do..... and everyone in the past didnt....

Interesting topic though.

[Other Means]

English English has it's variants too. The Liverpool accent is lovely (though maybe that's because Liverpudlians are amongst the nicest and kindest people in the UK) ...

I like you donnieitaly. You'll go far here.

I was watching a program about accents a while back that said the Lancashire accent is what the majority of people sounded like during the middle ages. It's very nearly died out now.

The scouse accent seems to be swimming against the tide (quelle surprise) in that while the rest of the country is getting more homogeneous ours is getting stronger. It's changed significantly since I was born and actually, to my ear, doesn't sound nearly as nice as it once did. It's less nasal and more glottal.

[donnieitaly]

I like you donnieitaly. You'll go far here.

The scouse accent seems to be swimming against the tide (quelle surprise) in that while the rest of the country is getting more homogeneous ours is getting stronger. It's changed significantly since I was born and actually, to my ear, doesn't sound nearly as nice as it once did. It's less nasal and more glottal.

I think that's something only a local would know - it still sounds like music to me.

Because you see I live in Walsall. My son wrote an article for his College magazine when he was at Oxford about Walsall. He said, and I paraphrase:-

"Walsall, dirt and filth in the streets, people who bite rather than talk and when they do talk use an accent that makes us all sound like we are inbred morons who have been drinking paraffin for the last six weeks. These are the HIGH points for Walsall" :-)

And he was right.

I had the great pleasure of having a holiday in Southport last month and spent some time with a bunch of Liverpudlians. Gents and Ladies to the core with beautiful accents. (Seriously, really friendly and courteous in the bar and I wasn't even buying!)

Anyways all this began when I just wondered if UK accents sounded all the same to American players as North American accents do to the English.

I think one of the chaps who tells the helicopters that they "are under active control" is bit thick <g> but otherwise I've not yet played it enough to hear all that is said. I have had to give up on the Marines since the Brits seems so much more agile in leaping over low walls.

A superb series of games. If you had told me 40 years ago this would have been possible I wouldn't have believed you. I think a lot of people tend to lose sight of that fact.

Donnie aka Chris Harvey (next time you're filling out names for tank commanders.)

[SlapHappy]

Here's some spoken text audio files with various accent types across US and Europe:

http://alt-usage-english.org/audio_archive.shtml#Ferdinand