Cid250 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 In CMSF i get many out of memory errors in big battles. My operating system is Windows XP 64bits... and i have a big amount of ram... Will be CM:Normandy's executable compiled to handle unlimited GigaBytes of RAM over 64 bits Operating systems?. In the next two years the 64bits operating systems will be running in more than 80% of the world's personal computers. For example, windows 7 will be sold pre-installed in many computers, and microsoft will encourage the 64 bits version, since all the new CPUs are ready for 64 bits... the 4Gb constrainf of 32bit operating systems will make them a dead plataform for games in the next two years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Im running Vista 64 without those problems you mention ( having 6 GB ram). However, CMSF probably only uses up to about 2GB ram, I guess it is not 'large address aware'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cid250 Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 The problem raises with huge scenarios, with many units, when you have a big amount of orders placed... Yes... i know that this is not the intentional desing of CMSF, but if i have a lot of RAM i want it being used, not limited by 32bits code constraints. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 There are some fixes in v1.20 which should help you guys playing mega-huge scenarios. There are no plans to make CMx2's code fully 64 bit until Microsoft stops messing around and jumps in with both feet. We don't want to maintain two different versions, nor do we want to have scenarios that work for some people and don't work for others simply because of the OS and amount of RAM they have available. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkey Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 There are some fixes in v1.20 which should help you guys playing mega-huge scenarios....thank you Steve! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Out of memory errors happen in virtual memory. They have nothing to do with how much RAM you have. CM:SF is still a 32 bit game executable, whether it runs on a 32 bit or 64 bit OS. It will have a gigabyte more virtual address space when running on 64 bits (4 instead of 3) but that's not saving your behind if things gets out of hand. Code fixes to use less memory will improve the situation, of course, both in virtual memory and in using less physical memory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Correct. Charles did some work on handling exceptionally "large" or "dense" maps, but the inherent limitations of a 32bit application are still there. Fortunately, so far the one that pushed all the buttons the hardest appears to be working now. Performance when saving isn't great, but there's not much we can do about that. Large, dense maps have a ton of data that needs to get to disk somehow! Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cid250 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 There are some fixes in v1.20 which should help you guys playing mega-huge scenarios. There are no plans to make CMx2's code fully 64 bit until Microsoft stops messing around and jumps in with both feet. We don't want to maintain two different versions, nor do we want to have scenarios that work for some people and don't work for others simply because of the OS and amount of RAM they have available. Steve Microsoft will jump in with both feets, this October... Windows 7 on any pre-installed PC that you buy will be running the 64bit OS version... you can't get a Windows 7 with 32 bits preinstalled on any new machine... unless you as customer request it!. So in October 2009 any new PC that you buy with windows preinstalled, will have the Windows 7 in his 64 bits version... Considering how many people needs an upgrade of his gaming ring... in the next two years, 80% of the "gamers" will run a 64bit OS. Even the people that have actually a 2 years old CPU, can run a 64 bit OS... the hardware was there a lot ago... it's only a OS optional upgrade for older machines, that will be requested for the game industry developers, to jump over the 4Gb RAM limit constraint in the next year's main tittles (max specs only, not minimum specs). Then... CMx2 will be available in 64bits in the next three years? when we reach almost 99% of 64bits OS penetration in the gamer's ring?, that's 2012. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Microsoft will jump in with both feets, this October... Windows 7 on any pre-installed PC that you buy will be running the 64bit OS version... you can't get a Windows 7 with 32 bits preinstalled on any new machine... unless you as customer request it!. So in October 2009 any new PC that you buy with windows preinstalled, will have the Windows 7 in his 64 bits version... Considering how many people needs an upgrade of his gaming ring... in the next two years, 80% of the "gamers" will run a 64bit OS. Even the people that have actually a 2 years old CPU, can run a 64 bit OS... the hardware was there a lot ago... it's only a OS optional upgrade for older machines, that will be requested for the game industry developers, to jump over the 4Gb RAM limit constraint in the next year's main tittles (max specs only, not minimum specs). Then... CMx2 will be available in 64bits in the next three years? when we reach almost 99% of 64bits OS penetration in the gamer's ring?, that's 2012. A lot of notebook will stay longer with 32 bits. And as I said, if the OS kernel is 64 bits you can still decide freely whether you want to run your application 32 or 64 bits (as long as all *.dlls are present), There was no 4 GB RAM limit in modern 32 bit OSes. There is a 4 GB virtual memory limit per process, which is also down to 3 or 2 GB depending on kernel architecture. In a word: the change isn't as dramatic as you think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Allow me to rephrase the question slightly, how much RAM should I buy if maximum CMX2 performance is one of my primary criteria? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cid250 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 A lot of notebook will stay longer with 32 bits. And as I said, if the OS kernel is 64 bits you can still decide freely whether you want to run your application 32 or 64 bits (as long as all *.dlls are present), There was no 4 GB RAM limit in modern 32 bit OSes. There is a 4 GB virtual memory limit per process, which is also down to 3 or 2 GB depending on kernel architecture. In a word: the change isn't as dramatic as you think. Notebooks aren't gamers ring... actually they are designed for web surfing, and you can't run CMSF on it... 32bit or not, (and when they will... they also will be ready for 64bits). I know that the limit is per process... so a modern game will be heavily limited by a 32 bit OS in the years to come... since the games have a lot high detailed textures that are swaped in and out, from the RAM to the GPU memory system... the number and size of those textures are growing and growing in each game release, reaching the limits of 32bits virtual memory addressing... the model is about to DIE in a mater of very few years (for the new developments to come). The games of the next year, will be more and more leaned to take the adventage of more RAM in his process. 64bits OS are coming, and they will stay... the migration will be more fast than anybody suspect since the CPUs were ready for that 64bit OS, several years ago. To keep you old 32bit OS in your 64bit CPU is a waste of resources that has no sense when all the new sells of Windows 7 will be in 64bits as default starting this October. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 @dan You don't buy RAM for CMSF If you have a 32bit CPU or OS, buy 4GB ddr2 since its practically free (price of a CMx2 module) If you have a 64bit processor and running vista64/xp64 and a DDR2 mobo, spend all you can on memory and it wont hurt (depending on budget and mobo slots) Now if you have a ddr3 mobo you already tossed in some $ in the first place so you should have 6gb already and that should be enough for csmf! in short; buy more RAM, its worth it. Oh and if you run DDR(1) ram, you should consider upgrading your whole system. sorry for trying to be smart, the beer made it come out this way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Trust me, I've had bosses that the above WAS their nice way. My current machine has done a couple of disturbing things lately and I am trying to decide how big to go if it becomes required. Am I correct to assume there is no obvious advantage in going above 6 GB? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Cid250, We'll just have to see how well Windows 7 does. If it winds up being like Vista, then we're going to have XP around for a lot longer In fact, we asked our testers to try something out in Vista and we found almost none of them are currently running Vista. At least not on their gaming machines. Why? Because Vista sucks, and even Microsoft has admitted that. So when Microsoft told us that Vista was going to be the future of Microsoft, and that we should do all kinds of things because as of x date (which kept moving ) "all" new computers would have Vista on it... good thing we didn't listen Eventually CMx2 will be fully 64 bit compliant. But we don't see a need for it now. We don't see a need for it in the next year, even. We'll likely wait until Windows XP is basically a thing of the past and can move to 64 bit completely. That's going to be quite a while from now. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Well, 6GB is 'extra' good if you have a mobo which supports triple channel RAM (3x2GB). Apart from that; in Windows, extra RAM is used for prefetching which will speed up your system, among other reasons. And at $10 a Gig (ddr2) I see no reason not to fill 'her' up (untill CPU/OS/MOBO max). Be it 4GB, 6GB or 8GB [...] total, I think its worth the money. For CMSF more then 4GB wouldn't really matter though. DDR3 is quite expensive but so is the rest of the system it supports, so its worth the $200, or whatever it is now, to get the 6GB (or more if you want). You could check out http://tomshardware.com if you are interested buying a new rig, they post optimal pc builds for various budgets regularly and its a pretty well informed website. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I have been looking at Toms, but they can go off the deep end on detail sometimes. They did have a very convincing article to the effect that there was no reason to buy more chip than the new 920 series, any advantages the fancier ones have are not being utilized by current applications. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Having a 920 myself, I think even the 920 is not being utilized by current applications. The higher versions are a lot more expensive and I think cheap to pick up when my 920 has lost some of its 'shine' I dont regret buying the 920 and the rest of this expensive machine, but its all not really being utilized at the moment, probably only crysis puts the system under reasonable load. However I think this new architecture will remain fast enough for the coming few years, which will hopefully save me from frequent upgrades and the connected hassle. And at least I can always slide all the bars to the right side (thought I deserved that after 8 years ) Toms can be too nitpicky in indeed, but the proposed system specs are quite valuable in my opinion. At least they're on this stuff everyday. Quite pissed of though at them some time ago, since they recommended my fast 1600 ddr3 at the moment i bought it, while recently I saw a test which said that the speed didn't really matter. It does give a little speed boost on games and winrar though, so that'll have to do for the extra EUR 80,- I spend :| 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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