How about DELETING some gear from troops?

[c3k]

Gents,

Nothing earthshaking here, but I've been struck by a few US ops in which the troops left their FOB without all their gear since they expected a quick jaunt which would return them later in the day. When it didn't turn out that way, well, lessons learned and all that.

Right now US gets night vision gear, GPS, camelbacks, etc. Would it be possible to delete some of that in a future iteration?

For example, if I wanted to try a Blackhawk Down scenario, I would leave that stuff off.

Again, nothing critical, just curiosity raising its visage.

If nothing else, could the items in the Special Equipment window be modified in the editor (and by "modified" I mean "deleted")?

(Do the camelbacks add anything to US troops? More endurance? Quicker physical recovery? Greater weight being carried? Or are they just eye candy?)

Thanks,

Ken

[Holman]

I'm pretty sure camelbacks are just eye candy, as they don't appear (or not appear) on the equipment list as a unit possession.

I don't know if the US soldiers melt less in the heat than the Syrians (who can't afford camelbacks) do.

[Sergei]

Basically, US infantry carries heavier gear than Syrian regulars do, so they move slower and will exhaust sooner. They benefit from better protection, though. Insurgents have minimal gear (and protection) and therefore move the fastest and take longer to tire down.

To model dehydration, set troops as weakened or even unfit.

[MikeyD]

There are a couple nice uniform mods that have successfully done away with the camelback. They appplied a knockout overlay to the artwork.

I think U.S. carrying all that gear could be termed "Blackhawk Down syndrome". I believe that was one of the 'lessons learned' from the incident -You take what you need with you on patrol just in case you have to fight your way out or barricade yourself in.

[c3k]

Yeah, but there have been recent ops where that lesson went unheeded, much to the chagrin of the troops caught out.

The laden/unladen aspect is something I tested a while ago. I'm just wondering if the cost of carrying the camelback somehow gave a benefit. (I've seen the wonderful mod which removes the camelback, but since that is just a graphical change, not an underlying simulation change, I don't think it would work for what I'm thinking.)

It seems that there is no known benefit to humping that water in game. (Hmm, did BF.C consider the ballistics effect of rounds impacting the camelback prior to hitting the body armor?)

Obviously, this is approaching an angels on a pinhead level.

In a (very slightly) more important aspect, since there are various items that get stapled into the Special Equipment interface, the ability to DROP/DISCARD/DELETE them would be nice.

For example, the misbegotten CLU: once your unit gains one, you're stuck. Or, if I'd like to fine tune the supply level of unit in the editor, it'd be nice to drop out some of the RPG rounds, or AT4's, or, as I stated up top, even the NVG's or GPS.

Nothing critical, just an idea for the future iteration of the engine.

Thanks,

Ken

[Holman]

I would very much like to be able to drop the CLU after expending the missiles, although perhaps doctrine requires that it be lovingly cleaned and placed back into its padded case aboard the Stryker. Maybe a "stow equipment" order for APCs/IFVs would work.

Choosing whether individual soldiers or squads carry or drop camelbacks, NVGs, or extra rations during play starts to seem kind of gamey, though. It allows some unrealistic "god's eye" cherry picking, I think.

[c3k]

Martyr,

I agree: during play would be a bit of a chore. My thought was only being able to edit these things in the, um, editor.

Un-aquire (or dis-acquire?) would be an excellent addition to the orders roster. The debate then would revolve around the ability to drop stuff in the dirt or not, and if dropped in the dirt, would another unit be able to see/know about it and then pick it up?

More angels.....

Ken

[tc237]

Yeah, but there have been recent ops where that lesson went unheeded, much to the chagrin of the troops caught out.

You've mentioned that twice now, what "recent ops" specifically? (other than "blackhawk down")

Anyway, regarding the Camelbak, the weight is negligible and does not impact soldier performance.

Same for a set of NVG's.

I do not think that hydration is simulated in the game.

If it is, the Camelbak really shouldn't provide a substantial benefit over the usual 2 Canteens, other then maybe "drinking on the move".

Camelbak = 3L of water

2 Canteens = 2L of water

[c3k]

tc237: I'll see if I can dredge up where I read about these AAR's. Sorry, but no guarantees. They were buried in several books I've read on DS and OIS.

The curiosity on nogs is more for night-time US performance without the tech.

Thanks,

Ken

[Bonecrusher-17]

Camelbacks are still part of the basic kit for most infantry doing patrols in OIF/OEF missions. Only units doing purely mounted missions (route security, convoy escort, etc...) are not using them.