I.D. of weapon used by Israel

[Stalins Organ]

I'm hearing that the Israelis did not indiscriminately drop 1000 and 2000 lb bombs, but that they used pretty large numbers of PGM's, including the new US Small Diameter Bomb, which has a 250 lb warhead for minimized damage.

Here's one take on it:

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/israel/articles/20090121.aspx

I presume you're responding to Flanker's response to my info - he seemed to assume that they were used indiscriminately.

But the quote I provided said no such thing - it says their guided bombs were able to be 1000 or 2000lb because they were not too worried by collateral damage.

It doesn't anything about how many they used, or what their other useage criteria were.

[Stalins Organ]

Hamas is still perisisted off at Fatah too of course - Hamas executes Fatah "traitors"

[gunnergoz]

I presume you're responding to Flanker's response to my info - he seemed to assume that they were used indiscriminately.

But the quote I provided said no such thing - it says their guided bombs were able to be 1000 or 2000lb because they were not too worried by collateral damage.

It doesn't anything about how many they used, or what their other useage criteria were.

Yeah, I later noticed that you did say "guided" and that's quite different than iron dumb bombs, even when the latter are dropped with modern a/c bomb aiming computers. So we are in agreement that the IDF is using PGM's for the most part; my bad.

PS, SO, please check your PM.

[Affentitten]

Hamas is still perisisted off at Fatah too of course - Hamas executes Fatah "traitors"

Of course they are. Israel originally bolstered and supported Hamas precisely because they were opposed to the PLO. The same sort of blowback as the mujahadeen/al-Qaede scenario in Afghanistan.

[Stalins Organ]

Got any evidence of that - other than 1 rather weird article in the Guardian?

[Stalins Organ]

Another post from my source - does anyone else have access to JDW & can confirm this?

JDW has an article detailing a Hamas internal report on their failure in Gaza. There is an acrimonious split between two groups of commanders, one blaming the other for prematurely ending the ceasefire before preparations for war were complete, and for planning that left an undefended corridor at Tel al Halwa that enabled the Israelis to cut off the coastal defenders from their supplies and missile reserves. The military wing as a whole blames the political wing for refusing a pre-war urgent request for satelite phones, which led to the leadership being entirely cut-off from the fighting. The politicians blame the military wing because they relied heavily on IED that were largely ineffective against Israeli AFV because of uparmouring and poor quality. Both sides blame Fatah activists in Gaza for helping Israel with intelligence both before and during the fighting. They admit more than 1,300 military losses, including 50 top explosives experts and the Interior Minister.

The Israelis say Iran is already trying to rearm Hamas. The Iranians expected Israel to occupy the whole Gaza strip and wipe out Hamas, and were relieved when they did not. They are now blaming Hamas for their ineffectual defence.

The Israelis expected to be facing ATGM, but only one (of unspecified type) was encountered. There were several attacks with tandem-warhead RPG-29, one of which knocked-out a D9 armoured bulldozer. All the Merkerva 2,3 and 4 used had been fitted with extra belly-armour, but several were penetrated by massive belly mines, which because of the front engined layout did not cause crew deaths. Tsefa mine-clearing rocket line charges were used in alley-ways to destroy IED. Hamas is estimated to have started with 3,000 rockets, fired 600, and had another 1,200 destroyed in airstrikes and ground fighting. Most were 20km range home-made Qassam or 43km range Chinese-made Grad. The Grad had to be broken down into 4 sections to get them through the smuggling tunnels, which the Israelis think explains why none of the longer range Iranian Fajr rockets were available.

The UN film of white phosphorus rockets shows airburst US 155mm cargo rounds which disperse multiple phosphorus-impregnated felt wads that start burning in mid air for a quick smoke screen. It is possible that a blind round hit the UN compound, or that it was hit by the cargo round body and a few wedges. We will see. {we've already seen that of course - I've posted him the photo! - SO}

Interesting how many MPs have been asking questions about British-supplied weapons being used by the Israelis and getting unnecessarily foggy anwers. As far as I know, the Israelis do not have any British kit. However, we do buy drones from them, and I suspect the government did not want to attrack attention to this...

[FAI]

Another flare up; an Israeli jeep just got IED'd, killing a soldier and seriously wounding 3 other.

[Affentitten]

Got any evidence of that - other than 1 rather weird article in the Guardian?

There's plenty of stuff going back some years. It last resurfaced in 2006 when Hamas won the elections. It's mainly been former US diplomats and intel types who have spilled the beans over it. One of the major Arab sources for it as well is Arafat himself, though I admit he's not objective.

Google Israel support Hamas and you'll probably dedge up something.

But when you think about it, it makes perfect doctrinal sense in the old 'enemy of my enemy' Middle East mentality.