Possible Map Error and Soviet Activation

[thetwo]

Bill,

In Operation Z, I may have spotted a couple bugs.

First, the port that corresponds to Chittagong is not destroyed when the city is captured (21,35). To destroy and hence capture the port, the Japanese player must move to (20,34).

Second, I was playtesting my script modifications and thought I had made a mistake when the Soviet Union kept entering the war early. I spent four hours pouring over the scripts and loading saves. Finally, I went back to deleted saved games from the stock scenario and found that the same thing had occured there. A creeping activation that I couldn't account for. Garrisons were kept in place and new units placed in late '43 in both games.

There only thing that makes sense is that the computer AI is using diplomacy to sway the Stalin into an early declartion. Interesting and nice to see the AI can make that kind of investment, but makes managing the Yalta event difficult.

Is it possible to exclude the USSR from other Alled nations' diplomacy options?

Thanks.

[Blashy]

Why do that? It is a great option to use in some games. It cost a fortune to invest in USSR but if it pays off then it can make for some interesting alternatives.

[thetwo]

No doubt Blashy. I am talking about for the Operation Z scenario, or at least for a mod to have a historical Soviet war entry based on Yalta. That is all.

[Blashy]

You can make it historical but leave the option to invest in diplomacy, that falls within the reality of "what if" scenario.

If USA or UK or both put 1000s of MPPs to try bribe USSR then let it be, it might just give Japan more breathing room or they might get lucky and have them join early. Diplomacy is a gamble.

[scottsmm]

With the US, and UK industries later on in the war especially if the UK has the Dutch East Indies, I almost wonder if 1,000 mpp between the two could give Japan any breathing room. However I definitely agree with you that Diplomacy can be a gamble.

[Clarke]

TheTwo, Try editing the diplomacy for the UK and USA in the AI scripts section of the editor. There is a script for each of these allies to try and influence the Russians. I would think you could set the trigger at zero or something to negate diplomacy from bringing the Soviets in early.

[Blashy]

For sure if you wish to created your own mod you can easily remove AI diplomacy.

[Clarke]

Well, he is actually modding here even if the work is intended to help eventually patch the scenario.

What Thetwo actually asked is if it is possible to exclude the USSR from other Allied diplomacy options. voiding or deleting those two AI scripts would seem to accomplish that. At least when playing the AI.

I am in sympathy with Blashy's position that the diplomacy option and the different possibilities it presents as a game unfolds are worthwhile and enjoyable. The two however is trying to keep the Russians from becoming an active participant in Asia until the summer of '45'. His position being that Stalin would not have been cajoled into an early attack on Japan because it wasn't in Soviet interests.

Blocking the Ai diplomacy scripts helps him do that but doesn't have any effect with human Vs human play, so it may not be the answer.

Perhaps he could edit the country data and let the Japanese spend less per chit for influencing hostile majors. That would be Russia only since the Japanese are already at war with the others. One or more additional chits allowed for the Japanese and an adjustment downward in the effect a successful diplomatic event has for Japan are options too. Along with the lower cost of a chit these could even things out. It would take some testing but it could work.

[Bill101]

First, the port that corresponds to Chittagong is not destroyed when the city is captured (21,35). To destroy and hence capture the port, the Japanese player must move to (20,34).

Hi thetwo

I've just tried replicating it but when my Japanese unit advanced from 22,35 to take Chittagong (21,35), the port was also destroyed.

Was there an allied unit at either 20,34 or 22,35 when the Japanese took Chittagong, or a naval unit in the port? If not, then it would have to be something else, and it would be great if you could let me know how to replicate it (i.e. is it due to advancing from a certain direction?).

Second, I was playtesting my script modifications and thought I had made a mistake when the Soviet Union kept entering the war early. I spent four hours pouring over the scripts and loading saves. Finally, I went back to deleted saved games from the stock scenario and found that the same thing had occured there. A creeping activation that I couldn't account for. Garrisons were kept in place and new units placed in late '43 in both games.

There only thing that makes sense is that the computer AI is using diplomacy to sway the Stalin into an early declartion. Interesting and nice to see the AI can make that kind of investment, but makes managing the Yalta event difficult.

Is it possible to exclude the USSR from other Alled nations' diplomacy options?

Thanks.

Great, I was wondering how you were getting on, though four hours looking for the problem does sound like it was driving you mad!

You can set the % chance of a diplomacy hit on a major to zero. If doing so, you might want to either make the cost prohibitive (1,000MPPs), or set it to cost nothing at all.

Don't forget to also amend the AI's diplomacy scripts, otherwise they may continue to invest even though there is no chance of a hit.

Although I will almost certainly be making some changes to Soviet activation, I do not intend to prevent diplomatic initiatives from being able to bring in the USSR earlier. View the cost of diplomacy if you like as an increase in lend lease - the more the USSR has, the quicker they can beat Germany and then join in the Pacific.

[thetwo]

Thanks for the reply Bill.

Here is the screenshot of the save file for the Chittagong example. Yes, there was an Allied unit in 20,34. Since you mentioned the possibility, you may be aware of the situation.

/ /

The four hours was mostly that I look for my own errors before I think to point the finger at someone else. I want to understand all the nuances and make sure I have it down. As it happened, I realized part of what Clarke suggested, from the other side, after I went to bed last night, toning down the chance per hit on changing Stalin's mind, from the Allied side. The AI scripts on diplomacy I hadn't looked at and totally missed. Forest for the trees comes to mind. Fortunately, patience and I are well acquainted.

As for assuming a different outcome in Europe, I wonder how far to take that before historical becomes what-if. Not trying to be argumentative, but wondering. We could also speculate on Hitler not squandering resources foolishly and the war lasting longer or on a Hitler assassination and the Generals letting the Western Allies have a pass, while directing all resources to holding the Russians back. Stalin would have been seriously upset.

Anyway, I appreciate your help and I expect you have had your own forest and trees moments as you designed Z. Those four hours weren't wasted. I looked at the detail under the hood and had time to think about and through some of the thought processes you must have gone through to reason out how it works.

[Capt Andrew]

Your British India infantry unit at 20,34 has maintained control of the port, so taking Chittagong will destroy the city but not the port. As soon as you destory that unit and move to the tile, you should see the port switch sides.