Any good walk-thru's for creating AI plans?

[meade95]

Looking for a good information / walk thru's in creating AI plans (for Red units) in new created scenarios -

[Sgt Joch]

check here:

http://homepage.mac.com/gibsonm1/CMSF/FileSharing24.html

not necessarely intuitive, but when you play around with the editor you get the hang of it pretty quick.

do not hesitate to ask if you have specific questions.

[meade95]

Thanks for the link - Appreciated!

"The Plans" section of the AI is naturally the most complicated / cumbersome for me at this point -

So, one can basically have 8 groups, correct? and each of these groups can have how many plans? Is there a maxium number? I think the example of using one truck moving down a street was somewhat of a poor choice too a degree.

Another question.

Say, you simply put a figher group onto a map (with no real plan). What will the AI have them do? Simply stay at that location and only act when responding to incoming fire upon them?

If you want a fighter group to simply protect a given individual? How do you go about this? Or do you simply have them defend a given location / house / structure?

[Paper Tiger]

So, one can basically have 8 groups, correct?

correct

and each of these groups can have how many plans? Is there a maxium number?

I presume you mean orders and not plans right? You have a grand total of 16 orders that can be given to your 8 groups. Basically, 'creating' a group consumes 1 order, the default order that determines the set-up status of that group. If you don't change anything in the editor, that group will sit in place in it's set-up position with a 'normal' fire command for 1 minute and then it will exit that order, presumably for another 'normal' order until the scenario ends.

So if you want to have AI groups that do a lot during the scenario, you either have to have less that 8 groups or some of those groups will have only 1 order. If you only have four AI groups you have 12 orders to distribute between those four groups. You can give them ALL to one group or distribute them any way you want. Be careful about giving more than 16 as the game will ignore those orders but which orders it will ignore, I can't tell you.

Another question.

Say, you simply put a figher group onto a map (with no real plan). What will the AI have them do? Simply stay at that location and only act when responding to incoming fire upon them?

If you want a fighter group to simply protect a given individual? How do you go about this? Or do you simply have them defend a given location / house / structure?

If you do NOTHING at all, the AI will deploy that unt in a corner of the board and they will sit there until the mission ends. they won't move at all, but they will defend themselves.

If you manually place that unit somewhere on the board with only the default order, then it will start and end the mission there. They will defend that location.

The fire command of your order will determine how your unit(s) will react to enemy units.

Active means that they'll fire on sight regardless of whether it's a good shot or not

Normal means that they will be a bit less trigger happy

Cautious means that they'll hold their fire until they have a good shot

Ambush Xm means that they'll hide and only fire when an enemy unit enter their LoS and is within their ambush range.

Hide means that they'll sit there and hide until you walk into their location.

With regards to moving AI groups about, I suggest that you set up a very small, simple scenario and experiment with the orders for a while to see how they work. No doubt this will seem quite confusing for a while. When you know what to ask, post back and we'll see what we can do to help you again.

[meade95]

Thanks for the additional info - I plan to do as suggested - Go through / playtest a couple small situations and try and get a better feel -

But do I have this start up process correct - Say I have a group labeld (F4) group 4 -

At plan #1 - When it says "set-up". When I shade in a section on the map (yellow) does this mean this unit will look to get to this point on the map (if not already there when placed)? And once at that location, if not given another order will remain at this given location/s ?

Now if this is the case? So when I place a set-up order (location and ROEs) how long will they remain at this location prior to moving on to order #2 (if there is one).

Now, for order #2, is this again merely placing a yellow shade somewhere on the map? And then this unit will find a way of getting to said location (while protecting itself).

Do I have this somewhat correct?

[meade95]

Edit (above comment). When I typed "At plan #1" (which is really order #1 of Plan #1) which is the set-up order - And all of this is for Group 4, lets say, for example.

So in theory there could be multiple Plans for Group 4, in which they could have multiple different set-up orders (and additional orders off of those differing set-up orders).

[Paper Tiger]

At plan #1 - When it says "set-up". When I shade in a section on the map (yellow) does this mean this unit will look to get to this point on the map (if not already there when placed)? And once at that location, if not given another order will remain at this given location/s ?

IF that section is within Red's set-up zone it will START in that location. This is a very important point. If that painted section is not within a red set-up zone (created in the Map editor), the AI will ignore that shaded area and the unit will start in the location it was placed in in the scenario editor. It can NOT move from this location unless you give it a second order.

There are potentially 5 AI plans for each scenario. However, you have to activate plans 2-5 so don't bother with them just now until you're more comfortable with creating one. But yes, group 4 could start in any one of 5 different locations if you create 5 different plans. Just remember that the AI only follows ONE of your plans during a scenario. It chooses it's plan when you exit the set-up phase of the scenario.

Timing of the orders requires a much lengthier reply that I don't have time for just now so I suggest you try some experiments creating a second order for a unit and seeing what happens.

[Cambronne]

I am surprised to find out that there are only 16 orders for ALL 8 groups.I thought there were 16 orders for EACH group per plan. May I ask how did you find out that what excedes 16 orders is not used by the program??? Was there any statement from BF or you found it by testing scenarios?

[ChrisND]

I am surprised to find out that there are only 16 orders for ALL 8 groups.

No.

I thought there were 16 orders for EACH group per plan.

Yes.

[Paper Tiger]

From the manual

Orders - basic instruction sets for a group (up to 16 per plan)

I interpreted that to mean all the groups within that plan and not 16 per group. If this really is the case, I will be a VERY happy camper as I can really use more orders. That just shows you how economical I have been with my existing AI planning. I also have never opened up anybody else's work in the scenario editor to see how THEY did it. I'll definitely have a look at someone's later tonight.

With regards to when I saw this? When I was creating the AI attack for 'The Barrier' mission in Hasrabit. I saw a group of tanks just sitting doing nothing and not moving onto their next order. I counted all the individual orders and found that there were 17 so I deleted an order from another group and everything worked fine again. I then erroneously concluded that I could only have 16 orders per plan.

[ChrisND]

From the manual

Orders - basic instruction sets for a group (up to 16 per plan)

I interpreted that to mean all the groups within that plan and not 16 per group. If this really is the case, I will be a VERY happy camper as I can really use more orders.

Prepare to be a happy camper.

[Paper Tiger]

I know. I just opened up USMC Circle the Wagons and found that there were dozens of orders in a single plan. One group even had all sixteen orders. This couldn't have come at a better time as I'm about to start scripting an AI attack and I want it to be brutal.:cool:

[meade95]

At plan #1 - When it says "set-up". When I shade in a section on the map (yellow) does this mean this unit will look to get to this point on the map (if not already there when placed)? And once at that location, if not given another order will remain at this given location/s ?

IF that section is within Red's set-up zone it will START in that location. This is a very important point. If that painted section is not within a red set-up zone (created in the Map editor), the AI will ignore that shaded area and the unit will start in the location it was placed in in the scenario editor. It can NOT move from this location unless you give it a second order.

Thanks again for this information - So, as long as a red unit is placed within the red-zone/s, it will start up in the location of where you have "shaded", correct (not necessarily where you have it placed in the scenarior / unit editor).

[meade95]

Here's a somewhat simple question? Say I have a group (Group F4) and in the set-up order I have a shaded area that encompasses 4 buildings in total - What will the AI have this group do? Will they simply stay in whatever particular bulding they are in (in the placement phase during unit placement editor).... Or will they somewhat patrol around this entire shaded area until coming under fire / spotting the enemy?

[Sergei]

You should try what happens if a unit starts a waypoint while within the destination area (and tell us). It might sit tight, or it might pick a random waypoint within the defined area. I'm not sure.

[meade95]

You should try what happens if a unit starts a waypoint while within the destination area (and tell us). It might sit tight, or it might pick a random waypoint within the defined area. I'm not sure.

Will do. Plan too. At work currently and was just brainstorming a thought.

[meade95]

You should try what happens if a unit starts a waypoint while within the destination area (and tell us). It might sit tight, or it might pick a random waypoint within the defined area. I'm not sure.

Hmm? After multiple tests, I have yet to determine what these units actually do (I'm placing Red units as such....then playing as Blue...).

It seems at times, some units start off where they were placed (via the editor) and stay there.....while at other times they seem to start off at an entirely different location...and/or move to one rather quickly......

(On a side note, not really related, I love the designate unit feature/option ...to be killed / destroyed for additional objective/bonus within a mission).

[cmfan]

I know. I just opened up USMC Circle the Wagons and found that there were dozens of orders in a single plan. One group even had all sixteen orders. This couldn't have come at a better time as I'm about to start scripting an AI attack and I want it to be brutal.:cool:

Hmm... your statement earlier regarding a limit on orders per plan actually made sense given my experience with the AI so far - I think. I've spent the day playing around with the AI and I keep having problems with vehicles and units that don't move despite starting near others that have identical orders. When I read what you said about a 16 order per plan limit I checked my test scenario and sure enough one of the vehicles that didn't move had order "number 17".

However - Looking more closely I notice that I do have a vehicle and squad that also remained stationary despite having movement orders that don't violate a theoretical 16 order move.