No wonder Germans lost the war (in CMBO)

[pjpaul123456]

I have been a keen follower / player of the CM series (CMBO and CMBB being the favourites). I really appreciate the efforts put in by the designers for the armour penetration models etc.

But the German giants seem to lack some basic common sense.

When suppose 1 x Tiger and 1 x Panther are facing 3 x Stuarts and 1 x Firefly at a distance of 800 m, the Tiger & Panther seem to focus exclusively on the Stuarts and leave the Firefly to pick them off one by one.

Didn't they teach the Wehrmacht in the CMBO model to identify and neutralise the immediate threats first?

Is there a patch which rectifies this basic inability to sense and neutrlalise the biggest threat first?

(Particularly see scenarios like Death of the Titans, Exit Stage Right etc. - Even when the play balance is normal.)

[Kingfish]

Unfortunately, there are no patches that fix this behavior. At least you can take comfort in the fact your big cats were engaging actual enemy tanks (albeit light ones) when they died. Nothing in CMBO is more frustrating than watching your Tiger turn broadside to a Firefly so it can engage a panicked 2" mortar team running away.

[JoMac]

Paul,

Just by CMAK ( CMBO replacement for the most part ), and many of those known problems will become a thing of the past.

Joe

[pjpaul123456]

Paul,

Just by CMAK ( CMBO replacement for the most part ), and many of those known problems will become a thing of the past.

Joe

Thanks Joe.

But can I continue playing the scenarios of CMBO on the CMAK / modified engine that you are suggesting?

I have CMBB in which the tanks seem to act much better. Can I play CMBO scenarios using CMBB engine? Would that be similar to your CMAK suggestion?

[pjpaul123456]

Unfortunately, there are no patches that fix this behavior. At least you can take comfort in the fact your big cats were engaging actual enemy tanks (albeit light ones) when they died. Nothing in CMBO is more frustrating than watching your Tiger turn broadside to a Firefly so it can engage a panicked 2" mortar team running away.

In fact this is the worst feeling.

I have had many experiences when say a Sherman V dropped smoke and hid behind it just 200 meters from the Tiger.

Then, instead of waiting for the smoke to clear, the Tiger coolly turns its back to the obvious location of Sherman V and focuses on some ridiculous infantry (not Bazookas or PIAT teams - these are at least understandable - it goes after some depleted infantry squad which has routed and can not pose an immediate threat).

So the smoke clears and we have the Tiger turn into a Sitting Duck with its back to the Sherman V. (And me sitting here clenching my teeth and cursing the Tiger.)

Of course the obvious question will be "Why do you allow the enemy tanks to close in at such a low distance?". But in hedgehog areas or even cities (e.g. the battle of Villers-Bocage) that's the farthest visibility on many occasions. And in any case that's not the point of discussion.

I have also seen that on some occasions the enemy tanks just turn into nationality symbols without any smoke etc. And then when my tanks focus on some other target, mysterious fire comes from the nationality symbols and knocks out my tanks.

Does this happen with all of you?

Are the designers aware of these issues?

Can these be fixed?

[dieseltaylor]

Thats why CMBO is not played. Buy CMAK, very much improved AI and new commands with converted scenarios available. Go to the scenario depot and see the hundreds available ....

http://www.the-scenario-depot.com/

[MeatEtr]

And if desert combat isn't your cup of tea then check out the CM Normandy conversion mod set found here.

[Kingfish]

Does this happen with all of you?

Yes, but there are tricks that help minimize this behavior. For instance, always screening your tanks with plenty of infantry (common sense) to deal with the pesky minor units that may distract your tank, leaving it to concentrate on the real threats.

Are the designers aware of these issues?

There is nothing the designer can do, as this is a game code issue.

Can these be fixed?

Not without a major overhaul of the codes, which at this point will never happen.

[easytarget]

CMBO isn't all that flawed and most of the issues whined about can be worked around if you just do some proper thinking about how to engage the enemy

CMAK was hardly much of an improvement, barely rating any mention when compared to what had already been done on CMBB

the real problem for battlefront and the games they make is one they probably couldn't avoid

they jumped the shark w/ CMBB and everything since then has been pretty much a waste of everyone's time

in memory of the revolution that was CMBO, i hope they stashed away some dough, because small developers in this recession are going to suffer, a lot

[dieseltaylor]

CMBO isn't all that flawed and most of the issues whined about can be worked around if you just do some proper thinking about how to engage the enemy

CMAK was hardly much of an improvement, barely rating any mention when compared to what had already been done on CMBB

The major issue in CMBO that is not easily worked around is the uselessness of HMG and MMG's both in tanks and in infantry models. I played probably getting on for 100 games and basically infantry was way under-suppressed and massed infantry would win battles. That tanks were easily confused just added to the mix.

Let me see - CMAK the game after CMBB where the outrageous bogging was turned down, where the fortifications glitch was sorted, where gun penetration figures were correct, where the daft morale rule was ditched. I like to think CMAK is the one game in the series without serious flaws.

Lets put it this way, I did not record my games prior to to June 2004 but since then I have played zero CMBO, 20 CMBB, and about 120 CMAK. I used to play more often prior to 2004 so I have played a lot of each game when it came out. CMAK is the best.

[Silvio Manuel]

Having most if not all troops in a CMBO battle be "Green" in experience at best tends to help a bit...

[SolarGirl]

USA Rules!

[JasonPratt]

Thats why CMBO is not played. Buy CMAK, very much improved AI and new commands with converted scenarios available.

I'm not sure about PJPaul, but I can't find many "converted scenarios" available at the depot.

DAF's (otherwise beautiful) Excel spreadsheet listing doesn't help in this regard either.

Does anyone know of a listing of converted CMBO scenarios?

[Kingfish]

I converted well over two dozen, if not more, over the years. Check out the scenario depot II under my name, or at Boots and Tracks. I also did a few for Andreas, but he has them hosted on his site (if it still exists).

[JasonPratt]

I converted well over two dozen, if not more, over the years. Check out the scenario depot II under my name

Well, I found "All Or Nothing" and "Nijmegen" there, under your name. Did you rename the others?

At B&T I found: "To The Last Man" (which I suppose is "Last Defense"), "Chambois", "Death of Titans" ("Fire and Maneuver"??), "Ardennes--Team DeSobry", and "Wilitz" (by someone else. {g})

Thanks for those, anyway! If you can think of any at ScenDepotII that you renamed, let us know.

[Kingfish]

"Going to the Oasis" is the CMAK conversion of the original Alpha scenario, with modifications made to depict a desert-style battle.

"Resolve at Ranville" is a conversion of Wild Bill's CMBO original under the same name.

"Taurus over the Odon" is an old Franko classic converted to CMAK.

All the ones that start with the 'TBC' prefix (The Brittany Campaign) are remakes of my CMBO originals.

"Worthington Force" is a remake of the scenario under the same name. The author's name escapes me at the moment.

All the above are found at the scenario depot.

In addition, I have on my HD the following:

49th Recce

A Canadian Confrontation

A Rock in the Flood

Aachen

August Bank Holiday

Fire in the Pass*

Le Plessis Grimoult

Maltot

Ramelle_Saving Private Ryan

*-used map from 'Fire in the mountains' but added different forces

BTW, "To the last man" is a conversion of Wild Bill's scenario, and is not "Last Defense".

[JasonPratt]

All the above are found at the scenario depot.

Ah! But then, none of those are remakes of Battlefront's own original scenarios. (Apparently...?)

Btw, "To the last man" is a conversion of Wild Bill's scenario, and is not "Last Defense".

Thanks for the clarification. It certainly looks fun anyway!

Obviously, part of the problem of finding remakes of original CMBO scenarios, is that "original" can be taken to mean "scenarios originally designed for CMBO but not part of Battlefront's original set". Plus, the ScenDepot information markers (unlike at B&T) don't have a search category for "CMBO remake" or whatever.

Incidentally, I've downloaded Philippe's monstrous set of scenario packs now, so I should now be updated on most scenarios written for CMBB and CMAK up through 4th quarter 2007. Since he topically arranged and sorted the CMAK things, I ought to be able to find out (with a lot of work {sigh}{s}) which scenarios and operations are remakes of the original CMBO missions.

Thanks again muchly for your help!

[Kingfish]

Ah! But then, none of those are remakes of Battlefront's own original scenarios. (Apparently...?)

I am assuming what you mean by 'Battlefront's own original' is what came with the CD, and not just the demo scenarios. If that is the case, only Aachen falls in that catergory. I do remember seeing CMAK conversions of the demo scenario and the Alpha battle floating around on the web, but where (or if they are still around) I don't know.

There is this web site:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~mudansha/maps.html