USMC bug: attack of the molemen

[c3k]

Gents,

I'm playing "Allah's Blues". A small spoiler follows.

I've moved a split Marine squad up the left side, where an RPG team was in a trench. I area fired for a while, then moved the Marines, in HUNT, up to the trench. 2 red-circled RPG gunners were at the far end of the trench. All is good.

The Marines engaged a distant target to their left front. Fine. Then, suddenly, they began firing about 12 meters away, directly into the dirt!! Grenades, full auto, everything. Hell, I think someone even threw their knife! Finally, at 11 seconds left in the turn, I heard an "aaaarrrrrggggghhh". Clearly, an enemy had just been hit. The is NO ONE there. At least, no one ON the surface.

The only explanation is the Syrian dug through the wall of the trench for a distance of approximately 10 meters. Frantic to escape the Marines, no doubt. All for naught.

I've got some screenshots and a savegame.

Screenies:

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn250/c3k_bucket/Molemenarecoming.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn250/c3k_bucket/Molemendie.jpg

Here's the link to the savegame:

http://www.mediafire.com/?zjbmt1wnwdy

[MarkEzra]

I have looked at the pics and have dl'd the save file.

[c3k]

MarkEzra,

Thanks. Let me know if you need or want more info.

Regards,

Ken

[MarkEzra]

No mole man bug that I can see. Here's what I think happened:

1st pic shows the two red patches indicating the RPG team Casualties

The 2nd pic clearly shows the Marines have a target order to fire at that spot. The sound effect Aaagh! is not related to this group but to the fighting in nearby buildings. When I continued to play the scen...without changing any orders for the marines...they continued to use their weapons on that poor patch of earth. When I release the target command they stopped.

[c3k]

Mark,

If you check, I NEVER gave a TARGET order. However, one does appear halfway through the turn, as is clearly displayed. That is either a TacAI order, or some other issue.

They were only under a HUNT. No cover arc, no target, nothing. Move only.

This is shown by watching the turn unfold: there is no TARGET command visible until halfway through the turn. Initially the TacAI has them firing at the far hill. Then, due to spotting probably, they fire at that spot.

The sound "aargh" to me is clearly linked with the TARGET line disappearing.

Thoughts?

Ken

[MarkEzra]

As this discussion evolves, here's what I'm thinking

1. No mole people bug...you've got an RPG team dead

2. Sound effects...non starter for proving anything one way or another

3. During playback the first and second teams don't exhibit any target order. When the third team connects up a target order appears. without actual evidence that no target order was given (and of course I believe what you say...just talking the need for empirical deduction here) it'll be hard demonstrate this is a bug. But I'm gonna post it, see what the other beta's views are...and of course, alert BFC.

If you have an earlier save file do please send it. I will test the scen (hopefully get the same Red AI plan quickly there are 5 different AI settings around this particular location!) and see if I can duplicate.

[c3k]

Yeah, I've got earlier savegames. A looooong time ago I made a habit of making many savegames. I no longer save EVERY command and EVERY replay turn, but I do save frequently. I should have one showing the squad in question in the previous turn or two.

I'll post the link to the savegame here, later.

Thanks,

Ken

[BFCElvis]

That is odd. I have never seen a target order appear from the TACAI. So if one appeared halfway through a turn (I am assuming from what I have read you are playing WeGo) that is not right and needs to be looked into.

[c3k]

Mark,

Two more file links. One, 006 starts at :41, the other, 007 starts at 40.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mzhyxlzmmiw

http://www.mediafire.com/file/nzfklwmywyj/USMC Blues For Allah 007.bts

A few thoughts: The TARGET does not appear until team B and C combine. That's a data point. Notice in the command phase in 006 that there is no TARGET. Nor in 007, nor in the "Moleman" file. So, this is NOT a player commanded TARGET.

However, earlier in the game, near the first turn, I did have that squad, complete with no teams broken off, area firing up there, possibly at that exact spot.

I broke off teams to re-ammo one at a time. While the very first team was re-ammoing, the other two, were, I think, TARGETING right near that spot. The ammoed team was never again allowed to TARGET. Instead, it moved. The same for the other teams. I THINK I gave them Cancel Targets before they moved out. I know for a fact that none of the three teams ever showed a TARGET line to that spot.

Would this be a possible cause? That the teams did NOT have TARGET, but the combined squad did? In effect, the squad's TARGET did not get erased when each of the teams were given a CANCEL TARGET? Hence, when the teams recombined into an entity known as a squad, the TARGET order was re-applied?

That's all I can come up with.

Thanks,

Ken

[MarkEzra]

Mark,

Would this be a possible cause? That the teams did NOT have TARGET, but the combined squad did? In effect, the squad's TARGET did not get erased when each of the teams were given a CANCEL TARGET? Hence, when the teams recombined into an entity known as a squad, the TARGET order was re-applied?

That's all I can come up with.

Thanks,

Ken

It sounds very plausible...I'll do some testing

[c3k]

Mark,

I've got a couple more savegames. The first, 002, shows the squad in question (siq) moving into position and snapping its TARGET line. The range at this point is 300ish meters. The turn ends seconds after the TARGET line gets established.

Here's the savegame;

http://www.mediafire.com/file/nlngzntmyzn/USMC Blues For Allah 002.bts

For grins, I've also uploaded the next savegame, 003. I'm really not too sure what it shows. I did not try to reload it. I do know that it falls between savegame 002 and 006. If you'd like the other files, let me know.

Here is 003:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zd0zmdfwtwk/USMC Blues For Allah 003.bts

Examining 002 supports my supposition that the original all-up squad's TARGET got reestablished.

Thanks for jumping on this so quickly.

Regards,

Ken

[MarkEzra]

I have been able to duplicate the problem as:

1. Sqd order to fire

2. Sqd split into 3 teams

3. C team order to move into truck

4. Fire order(s) canceled (but C team in truck shows no fire order)

5. All teams are given move order

6. As C team merges with other teams a fire command is displayed and fire commences.

Before we call this a bug we may wish to consider the possibility of a "pin, flank, kill feature"... One way or another BFC has been notified

[c3k]

Excellent.

Your "Pin, flank, kill feature" got a laugh out of me.

So, I assume I get a partial credit on this one? Perhaps I can get BF.C to let me download a module early. Oh, wait; nevermind.

Seriously, thanks for grabbing this through the many other threads and sticking with me on it.

Regards,

Ken

[MarkEzra]

You get full credit. I appreciated the fact you were able to consider a different take on what was happening and expand on it. Because of that the cause and effect was illuminated. It's not who's right but what's right...