Near Term Ammo for Tanks

[c3k]

Gents,

With the Marines banging on the door and the Brits just around the corner, I was wondering about the newer ammo types that may see combat in the next year or so (the putative time frame for the CMSF series).

Specifically, the M1 right now only has sabot and HEAT rounds. I thought cannister had been, or is just about to be, distributed? If so, is their lack due to BF.C considering that they would not be used? Would this be true of the Marines? Of the Brits?

Speaking of the Brits, HESH goes "boom" quite well: is this modelled? Do the Brits have ammo types pending other than sabot and HESH?

Thanks,

Ken

[Meach]

I think with the recession and the budget cuts we have "Bean tins" to fire at the enemy now. I want them properly modelled and they have to inflict nasty cuts on the enemy when fired in the "open" position. Standard issue bayonet can be used to "open" the aforementioned tin before engagement commences. We do not recommend using beans as individual ammuntion.

We take no responsibility for burns inflicted from heating said beans in the BV.

[flamingknives]

In terms of what actually exists, CR2 has APFSDS, HESH and Smoke rounds for the main armament, and they have also used concrete-filled practice rounds in operations as well (Just a big bullet, minimises the collateral damage.)

Rarden armed vehicles carry HE and APDS.

Infantry has a variety of shoulder launched weapons, including HEAT and enhanced blast, plus infantry grenade launchers, not to mention the British Squaddies' legendary harsh language.

Air support has HEAT, and enhanced blast Hellfire, HEAT Brimstone, CRV-7 HE and Flechette*, cannnon (27mm and 30mm), and a number of flavours of bomb (including a concrete filled one again.)

Artillery has the usual HE, plus smoke, smart submunition for 155mm, guided MLRS and Illum.

Don't know what will be included in the game though.

[MikeyD]

"...that may see combat in the next year or so (the putative time frame for the CMSF series)."

I just double-checked the manual and it seems the great Shock Force invasion of Syria happened on June 19, 2008. Its hard to tell from the text, the story starts with terrorist provocations in "winter 2008" but they seem to have meant January-February 2008, not December 2008. So I guess CMSF is officially no longer a 'near future' battle sim, its like 3 month old history now

[Elmar Bijlsma]

So the Brits don't use HEAT at all for their 120mm? Because I was under the impression HESH wasn't all that good against modern armour.

[flamingknives]

Elmar,

It isn't. But that's the thing about a secondary ammunition natures. APFSDS is good against modern armour, while HESH is much more effective than HEAT in making large holes in concrete structures and distributing light armour over a wide area.

HEAT jets are degraded by spin, the L30 is rifled, so the two don't go too well together. Granted APFSDS doesn't like spin either, but since it's sub-calibre, its comparatively easy to apply a slipping driving band that limits the spin, and a small amount of residual spin reduces the effect of inconsistencies in the projectile, increasing the accuracy.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

What do you think that means when the Challenger upgrades to the L55? HEAT but no more HESH? That would be a pity, I like the idea of HESH. And it's so typically British to shoot explosive putty at stuff.

[flamingknives]

It's a good question, and not one I know the answer to. There are other natures for a smoothbore gun, including something not dissimilar to a mortar round (it might even be a modified mortar round.) It ought to be possible to produce a fin-stabilised round with a multi-mode fuse that could achieve airburst, impact and post-impact (Delay for penetration or HESH effect)

AIUI, the new Anti-Structures Munition (ASM), a shoulder-launched infantry weapon, uses a HESH-style warhead.

A point of note is the confusion that often results in comparing post-WW2 British weapons to German ones. British weapons are designated with an L-number, much like the US M-numbers. Hence the L30 is a development of the L11, which are both 55 calibre length 120mm rifled guns, compared to the German L55, which is a 55 calibre length 120mm smoothbore gun.