Just to piss-off BFC, Marine Corps switches to yet another new plate carrier:

[akd]

Marines and sailors with Combat Logistics Battalion, 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, carry a wounded role player to a CH-46E Sea Knight helicopter during a Nightingale Exercise, Aug 21, at Kin Blue Beach. The Nightingale is a 12-man medical team ready to respond to a mass casualty situation.

(Official Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Jason Spinella)

Marines from Charlie Company, Battalion Landing Team, 1st Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment, 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit, NATO-International Security Assistance Force, conduct combat operations in Helmand province, Afghanistan.

(Photographer: Cpl. Andrew Carlson : 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit Public Affairs)

August 22, 2008

Military.com|by Christian Lowe and Kimberly Johnson

The Marine Corps has issued thousands of new body armor vests that are lighter, more comfortable and allow more freedom of movement than the current vest, but offer less ballistic protection than the Corps' standard-issued armor.

The so-called "scalable plate carrier" uses the same enhanced small arms protective plates and Kevlar ballistic inserts as the Corps' Interceptor body armor and modular tactical vest, but in a more streamlined, less bulky package than vests issued to most Marines.

So far the Corps has fielded about 5,500 of the plate carriers, made by Eagle Industries of Fenton, Mo., throughout the three Marine Expeditionary Forces, but the vest is primarily intended for Leathernecks deployed to the western Pacific region and parts of Afghanistan, officials with Marine Corps Systems Command said.

In February, Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway fired a shot across SysCom's bow in an interview with Fox News during his trip to Iraq and other Middle East war zones. Then, he wondered why the office responsible for equipping Marines chose the current MTV -- which Leathernecks have nicknamed the "Hesco" after the sand-filled wire-and-burlap barriers that protect remote bases from enemy fire.

He then ordered SysCom to come up with a new design, even though the Corps had already shipped 84,000 MTVs to the war zone.

"We put the last 25,000 [MTVs] on hold, and I asked, 'How is it that we got to this point? What was our pre-selection survey like and wear test like to the extent that we've got this thing now in large volume,' " Conway said during an Aug. 18 interview. "Frankly, we're hard pressed to understand."

Despite the plate carrier order, nearly six months after the commandant's request SysCom still hasn't followed through with a replacement for the MTV.

"We are currently gathering data and information from Marines returning from OIF and OEF," said SysCom spokeswoman, Capt. Geraldine Carey, in an Aug. 7 email statement to Military.com. "Once all the data is collected and analyzed, we will approach industry for possible new designs and or changes to the current body armor."

The new plate carriers are essentially a slimmed-down version of the MTV, with larger arm holes, thinner shoulder straps and a shorter chest profile. The reduction in weight and lower silhouette of the plate carriers "would allow greater mobility with reduced thermal stress in high elevations, thick vegetation and tropical environments," SysCom said.

In 2004, the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit purchased plate carriers for its Marines during a deployment to the scorching deserts of southern Afghanistan. Since then, many troops have favored the uncomplicated plate carriers over their more weighty counterparts, which incorporate ballistic yokes, chin guards, groin protectors and various ballistic add-ons, depending on the mission.

"Now the Marines who are wearing [the MTV] repetitively don't like it so much," Conway explained. "It is heavier. It gives a little more protection -- that is one of the net positives with it. We still need a lighter vest that gives us the same amount of protection."

In March 2007, the Corps received an "urgent needs statement" from field commanders requesting the plate carriers for forces in Afghanistan and units deployed to Asia -- where hot, jungle environments make wearing the 30-pound MTV impractical. Since then, the Corps made plans to buy nearly 10,000 plate carriers and has made them available to vehicle crewmen as well.

"For the most part, we think the vest has particular application in Afghanistan because, once again, if you're climbing up and down mountains you want to be protected, but you don't want to be weighed down so much that you're just going to be sapped," Conway said of the SPC vest.

The issue of body armor and the balance between ballistic protection and mobility has been a controversial one, particularly since casualties mounted in Iraq from powerful roadside bombs and armor-piercing sniper rounds. As the blast injuries increased, the services added on new ballistic protection to their vests.

But the boost in protection came at the cost of comfort and weight; some vests topped 35 pounds with various accessories and stronger plates. That prompted some commanders to ask for leeway in how they outfit their troops, given the security environment and the type of terrain units operated in.

"I like the idea of modularization as long as you had some pieces that you could add or subtract" from the carrier, said David Woroner, a body armor expert and president of Survival Consultants International. "Personal protection should be just that, it's a personal choice at some point."

In January, the deputy commander for Marines in Iraq, Maj. Gen. John Allen, told Military.com he was on the verge of allowing his troops in Anbar province -- which had seen a steep reduction in violence and roadside bomb casualties -- to strip down their armor, leaving their chin guards, groin protectors and side plates at the base while on patrol.

That prompted a sharp rebuke from superiors in Baghdad who still believed the risk from IEDs was enough to keep Marines buttoned up behind the MTV's full ensemble.

But now it seems the restrictions have softened.

"A lot has to be left to the commander. Threats will vary in different locations," explained Conway, who wore the SPC during a recent trip to the Middle East. "You may have a sniper threat in one place and a shrapnel threat in another. You may have a commander whose force mainly rides to the fight and another one that has to climb up the side of mountains."

"That we've got these various [types of armor vest] is marvelous," Conway said.

Military.com contributor Kimberly Johnson reported from the Middle East.

Well, not really a wholesale transition, but interesting how many different types have been fielded now.

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, we just heard about it too. Like you say, it doesn't look ALL that different than the current one. When I first heard the news I was wondering if they went with MARPAT, which would have been a piece of cake to add even at this late date.

Steve

[Lee]

What you do is you issue the heavier vests to only those that really need them, and issue the lighter ones to everyone else. The guys that would benefit most are Marines driving around in vehicles on patrol and stuff like that, where they don't have to get out and hoof it much or move around quickly.

Of course, the number of roadside bombings by the terrorists has dropped to almost nothing in many areas where it previously happened a lot before the troop surge, so very few of the Marines even on patrol would need such heavy stuff. Which is *great* news, since it means many many fewer of our guys are getting hurt. But it also means we need to buy a lot of the lighter armored vests now.

[John Kettler]

akd,

Great stuff to know, but I'd also like to know about the Jelsoft naughty language logic that permits you to use the thread title you did, yet excises the standard form of the word spelled phonetically Delta Oscar Romeo Kilo. Seems a bit backwards to me!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Moon]

That's because you haven't tried to type it. If you had you would have seen that it's not ***'d. The swearwords filter has been loosened.

[John Kettler]

Moon,

Good to know! Pretty bad when adults couldn't use the word "dork" while simply discussing a topic--without personally attacking anyone.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Moon,

Not sure where to post this (too many threads to keep track of). I believe it's LAV-25 (says Stryker) thermal display video while in MOUT contact with RPG and friends.

By all means move it if here's not good.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9db3532e16

Regards,

John Kettler

[akd]

Moon,

Not sure where to post this (too many threads to keep track of). I believe it's LAV-25 (says Stryker) thermal display video while in MOUT contact with RPG and friends.

By all means move it if here's not good.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9db3532e16

Regards,

John Kettler

Thermal display, slat armor and .50 cal thumping suggests a Stryker mislabeled as belonging to Marines by whoever posted the video. Interesting vid.