Notebooks that “really” can run games?

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Recently I bought a laptop that according to the spec should be able to be used to play any PC game. As it turns out it crashes a lot, I think it is overheating.

Anyway….. does anyone have a notebook that can cope with games to a standard close to that of a desktop? i.e. it does not crash when playing games. All notebooks will get a bit hot, but does anyone know of a model that can cope with the current series of CM games, and it likely to be able to cope with CMX2? Of course, quite what will be needed to cope with CMX2 no one can know for sure.

Thanks for your help,

All the best,

Kip.

PS. For example… do Alienware notebooks work as advertised? Can they really cope with games?

[Redwolf]

If it actually gets unstable when running games then it is just a bad notebook. Most notebooks should have thermal design that allows them to run applications that use both the CPU and the graphics chip fully.

Having said that, Sony and Toshiba seem to be notorious in failing to do so. Toshiba is partly excused because they usually don't put any decent GPUs in their notebooks and hence lack experience when they do.

Obviously, any notebook with ventilation openenings on the underside requires special care. I would never buy such a notebook.

If you already own a notebook givign you trouble you can buy additional ventilators for the PCMCIA slots. But unfortunately modern notebooks in all their wisdom reduce the 2xTypeII/1xTypeIIL slot to one single TypeII slot so that the bigger ventilators don't fit and you are obviously screwed when you need one single PCMCIA card.

[ October 09, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Redwolf ]

[Redwolf]

If you want to make sure, then you should use a Centrion (Pentium-M) notebook.

The normal mobile CPUs (Pentium-3 mobile, Pentium-4 mobile, Athlon anything mobile) do not actually take less power when the CPU is operating at 100%. These old mobile versions of CPU only take less power when they are idle (not sleeping, just no application hammering them). Only the Centrino actually takes less power when operating under full load.

[ October 09, 2004, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Redwolf ]

[Tim The Enchanter]

Check out some offerings from Alienware or Voodoo , they make laptops specialized in gamming - they won't crash.

If I could personaly find a use for a laptop I would buy one, but I really have no need to buy one at this time, they are cool though!

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Thanks for your answers I appreciate it.

“If it actually gets unstable when running games then it is just a bad notebook.”

Yes… probably:) It is really just a badged, generic notebook out of China. It has the same spec as an Alienware machine, but at 2/3 the price. You get what you pay for:)

In fairness to the machine it does not always crash in games. But to avoid crashing the room has to be at a temperature that most would find a little cool.

Clicking around on the net I have found what is called an Antec Notebook Cooler.

http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_cooling.php?ProdID=75004#

According to the reviews I have read at various sites it does work. I will give it a try.

All the best,

Kip.

PS. One day I will end up getting an Alienware or Voodoo notebook as they are cool and I believe what Tim writes that they will not overheat in games.

[tooz]

Kip, I play CMBB and CMAK on my Dell Inspiron with good results, however I limit my playing time to three hours at a time (which suits my wife just fine!). I was informed by the people at Dell (from Xiamen, China) that "if I want my laptop to last, I should let it rest frequently--especially in the summer". Well, it's now been one year and a half and I have not experienced a crash.

I was informed that the P-4 just cranks out too much heat to be properly displaced by the laptop. I noticed how hot my powerpack gets after two and a half hours. So, I shut it down, and if I'm still craving CM, I then fire up CMBO on my crap desktop.

I like this thread, I like the laptop, and I'm kind of, sort of, glad that I have to budget my CM playing time. Let me know how your new laptop works with the different chip, and if you buy the Alienware piece, did it deliver what it promises.

[tooz]

Oops! If you get this Antec notebook cooler, let me know if it was worth the $40--and did it work as promised.

[kipanderson]

Tooz, hi,

Yup… I will report back on the Cooler. I just ordered one online… should have it in a couple of days.

I have not ordered an Alienware machine yet. Will see how the Cooler works. I agree that it is asking a lot for a P4 powered notebook to work as well as a desktop. If the heating is not on it does not crash, but we talking an autumn day/night in the UK so this does require a temperature below normal room temperature. My machine is probably no worse than many a power notebook.

In order to get a notebook that can fully handle games, with no “special measures” being used to help it along, my guess is that, sadly, one does have to throw money at the problem and get an Alienware/Voodoo machine. But I hear what you say about the Dell…good news.

Will report back on whether I have solved the problem.

All the best,

Kip.

[Redwolf]

Well, which Alienware notebook are you interested in? The Area-51 or the smaller centrino based one?

The small Alienware notebook only has the Intel 855 on-board graphics which doesn't even have hardware T&L. How they can market that as a gaming platform is bejond me.

If you can afford the Area-51 you might want to check out the Dell Precision Workstation M60. It has about the same speed, but a Centrino instead of the Area-51s Pentium-4,and NVidia Quadro something graphics which is the best you can get for mobile GPUs. It's about the same cost although Dell charges more for extra memory and harddrive.

Don't me mislead by the Pentium-4s maximum power usage. First of all almost no existing program can actuall drive a Pentium-4 to its maximum Thermal Design Power.

Secondly, Pentium-4s vary greatly. The new 90nm Prescott core based ones are just horrible, but my 2.8C with the Northwood 130nm core takes up 122 watts in a complete machine with 3 big harddrive, 1 GB of RAM, multiple ethernet, one Radeon and one Geforce FX card. Be warned that 2.8 GHz versions exist of both the Prescott and the Northwood core, so before you buy a 2.8 GHz P4 make sure which core is actually used.

But beware of graphics chips. My Gefore 4400 and my Gefore 5900 XT both take just short of 40 watts more running a 3D game than displaying 2D graphics.

[jwxspoon]

I have an Alienware Area 51 laptop. I spent an inordinate amount of money on it.

It plays games well, even newer FPS like Far Cry or Batlefield: Vietnam. However, it gets really, really hot. It is also really, really heavy.

If I had it to do over, i would have gotten a cheap desktop for $1000 and spent the remaining $2000 on a middle quality, light laptop that I would have used for most everything BUT gaming.

jw

[Redwolf]

Kip, would you mind telling us the brand and model of your notebook?

Might be useful to avoid accidents later.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

A lot of interesting posts…. in fact very interesting.

As a result of your posts I rang Dell for a chat, from the UK, and this is an extract from an email I sent a friend reporting on the conversation with Dell. I will just copy and paste the email to save typing;)

“When it comes to the Intel Centrino mobile chips I had always discounted them for gaming purposes. I had always assumed that to play games one needed a power, desktop replacement notebook. i.e. a notebook with say a 3.2 Ghz P4 chip such as I have in my notebook. Turns out I was wrong. No surprise there you may say:)

I have just had a long chat with Dell sales, now based in India. The girl I ended up with passed me on to the technical support chap at dell sales. He explained to me that although Centrino chips have a far lower stated clock speed, nothing faster than 2 Ghz at present, their useable power is far greater. A 1.5Ghz Centrino chip is equal to about 2.8 Ghz P4 ratings. But, of course, the Centrino chips really are a lot cooler when built into a quality machine.

When he was off the phone I checked it out in a PC mag I have on the table. The following figures come from the October issue of PC Advisor, which Vish kindly left with me.

Scores in WorldBench 4, it is a straight-line relationship between the results.

Toshiba TecraM2 with 1.8Ghz Centrino:137

Sony Vaio VGN A117S with 1.7Ghz Centrino:137

Mesh desktop replacement with 3.2GhzP4:112

Evesham desktop replacement with AMD 64 3400+ chip:103

Now some scores for actual desktops as opposed to "desktop replacements".

Mesh desktop with AMD 64 3400+:147

Carrera desktop with AMD 64 3200+:142

( Remember... in pure speed AMD 64 chips are currently slightly faster then Intel P4s. So a 3.4 GhzP4 would do no better than about 145 on the same scale in a desktop.)

Anyway...enough of my ranting. For gaming notebooks the Centrino chips are clearly the way to go. The chap at Dell was absolutely correct, not bull****ing, a 1.5Ghz Centrino is probably equal to a 2.8 Ghz P4 installed in a desktop PC, in terms of useable power.”

The Dell M60 does indeed look very good, very suitable. I did not know about it because in the UK it is marketed as a “business” machine and so is located ina different part of the website.

Also, of course, great to have report from someone with an Alienware 51 laptop.

The machine I bought is a Rockdirect QXT Pro 3.2 with the ATI 9700. I live in the UK, British company.

The screen, 1400x1050, is outstanding. The keyboard stunning, real please to use. The ATI 9700 graphics acrid gives a great picture. But at normal, or higher than room temperature it does crash in 10-60 minutes playing games. If the room is a little cool, les than normal room temperature, it does not crash. I will see how the cooler works. But for my next laptop… I do think Centrino chips are the way.

The guy at Dell quoted a huge list of gaming development companies that use the Inspiron 8600c laptop for their work. Centrino chips with ATI 9600 graphics card. No doubt very soon it will be the ATI 9700 card the 8600 will use.

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[Redwolf]

Do not get a notebook with an ATI card. If you need to know why ask me to repost my rants, but for now lets just say don't do it if you plan to use that notebook for a long time.

The Centrino is indeed very fast for its clock speed. I thought you knew about it. In fact, for real-world programs not heavily optimized for P4s (like these benchmarks are) they are even comparably faster than these benchmarks imply. The 2.0 GHz Centrino will blow any 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 (not extreme) right out of the water.

The Centrino architectre party reverts the extreme performance characteristic of the P4 which made only code heavily optimized for P4s run fast. A P4-ignorant game like Combat Mission will run comparably much better on a Centrino (or any AMD chip) than on a Pentium-4 or Pentium-4-M (mobile).

%%

EDITed to add: you can get the Inspiron 8600 with an NVidia chip although not a top-of-the-line one. get the M60 if you can afford it.

[c3k]

Kip,

Allow me, an interested bystander, to interpose. You wrote, in part;

Originally posted by kipanderson:

Hi,

The machine I bought is a Rockdirect QXT Pro 3.2 with the ATI 9700.

The ATI 9700 graphics acrid gives a great picture.

Kip.

I would stay VERY far away from any graphics card calling itself the "acrid". You have enough overheating issues with the CPU. Or is the graphics card only "acrid" just before your machine locks up?

Good luck,

Ken

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Ken… yes acrid sums up the over heating very nicely:)

Redwolf… thanks for all hints… you certainly do know your subject…and if I get another laptop, hopefully it is case of when, then it will have an Nvidia graphics card. The M60 Dell looks outstanding, just the job.

I received the cooler yesterday and it looks very good. Also, no bigger then a thin-ish laptop. Build quality is very high. I will not know if it really works until the weekend when I will play an hour or so of CM, at normal room temperature, and report back on the results. Am optimistic… but time will tell.

All the best,

Kip