Possible nVidia info to help people

[Battlefront.com]

Read this and report how things go:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=33&t=39191

Steve

[ September 12, 2007, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[Cpl Steiner]

Thanks Steve. After reading the report I checked my system and found I had the ASUS enhanced display drivers installed. I uninstalled them and I reckon I got about another 5 FPS in "Allah's Fist", allowing me to move up from Balanced to Improved 3D Detail in that scenario.

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Read this and report how things go:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=ST&f=33&t=39191

Steve

Huh?

Jun 27 2007, 11:46 PM

Post #1

********

Group: Members

Posts: 5,195

From: Australia

Member No.: 24,967

This thread is to list issues with opengl, and how to fix those issues.

Q1. I previously owned an Asus video card and now my opengl games won't work with my new card or run extremely slow. (or i installed a newer driver on my Asus card and now opengl games run at 1fps)

A. This is caused by installing the Asus Enhanced Display Driver, it installs its own optimised Opengl ICD (ATKOGL32.dll), to fix this, open Add-Remove programs and uninstall this.

Q2. I own a Geforce 6 or higher card, and MOH reports an issue regarding MultiTexturing.

A. This is caused by the Extension limit in that games profile, either not being set right, or the profile isn't working properly, to fix this, you need to download Nhancer 2.0 (requires DotnetFX 2.0), and change the Extension limit for the MoHAA profile to 11A8, this does not work, in some cases, and requires that the profile be deleted, and then recreated.

Q3. none of my opengl games work, but the Realtek VR extension viewer reports that opengl is working.

A. this is usually caused by the extension limit setting being set to enabled in the global profile, open up the nvidia control panel (the new one) and change this to off.

Q4. NeverWinter Nights has black borders around surfaces and buildings.

A. NeverWinter Nights Opengl engine is incompatible with Opengl 2.0, you can either install an opengl 1.5 only driver (Forceware 70 and lower) or disabling shiny water also fixes it, at the expense of the loss of water reflections (petition the developer to fix the renderer engine)

Q5. I have a, Spitfire based, Duron, or Thunderbird based Athlon core and Opengl won't work with my new card.

A. Opengl in driver versions Forceware 80+ requires SSE extensions, otherwise they fail to work, Cpus that support this extension are Morgan based Duron cores, and Palomino based AthlonXP cores including all AthlonXP's after this, all Athlon64 and Pentium4 and higher cores support SSE.

Q6. Opengl runs extremely slow on my DualView system.

A. Opengl does not for some reason, like sharing acceleration among multiple monitors, to fix this, set the Hardware acceleration to single display mode in the Nvidia control panel, the classic cp, defaults to single display mode, where as the New CP defaults to multiple display mode,.. for some reason.

Q7. Opengl runs slow on Vista.

A. The current Opengl ICD in Vista has had to undergo massive changes in structure to be compatible with the way Vista accesses APIS and hardware, the Opengl in vista will get faster as time continues to pass. already, most games are running at 95% of the performance of XP.

Q8. Im running an application in Java SE, and Opengl Games freeze or don't run at all.(such as, internet banking, Azureus, you will know if an applet is open as there will be a coffee cup in the task tray.

A. JAVA SE 5 introduced hardware acceleration to java applets, but this implementation was constant, XP does not like sharing the hardware to multiple apis so will either fail to run, or crash, or both, to fix this, close all Java apps before attempting (including fully shutting down IE or Firefox to unload the control, or Download the Latest Sun Java SE 6, which now only initiates the hardware call if the applet requests it.

Q9. Starwars KOTOR2 fails to run under Vista.

A. this actually has nothing to do with Opengl, but is actually the MSS32.dll version used, simply copy in the older mss32.dll from the original Kotor game, and set the game to run in XP SP2 compatibility mode. please note, the KOTOR engine makes heavy usage of Particle and GLSL shader effects and can bog even the most powerful of systems down if resolution and AA are too high.

Q10. Chronicles of Riddick informs me that it requires Opengl 1.3 or higher, i am using the latest drivers.

A. this is actually caused by using the latest drivers, the game checkes your opengl version against the minor number (.1, .2, .3, .4, .5) instead of the major and minor number (1.1, 1,2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 2.0) so if your card supports opengl 2.0, it returns that the card supports .0 opengl version, this is fixed by installed the 1.1 Patch.

Are you serious?

I did not previously own an Asus video card, and the only opengl games that won't work properly is CMSF.

Is the same MOH issue regarding MultiTexturing the problem with CMSF, or is MultiTexturing suspected to be the issue?

The Extension Limit is set to off already.

I am not experiencing black borders is anyone else?

I don't have a Spitfire based Duron, or Thunderbird based Athlon core and CMSF is the only game not performing correctly.

I do not have a DualView system, and in anycase already changed the hardware acceleration to single display mode.

I am running Win XP Pro SP 2, not vista.

While it is interesting to read that the "Chronicles of Riddick" requires Opengl 1.3 or higher, and this was an issue for them two and half months ago I am not sure how it applies to CMSH midway through September.

Again, have you been able to duplicate the horribale frame rates on your test machine, and what have you learned about why it is happening?

When testing complex systems sometimes at first it's ok to throw a dart blind folded at a problem if you've had a lot of practice as you may hit the bullseye, but after a couple throws, me, I go methodical.

Right now all we and you know is how the symptom presents. If you don't get to the next step and document the problem and confirm it you could post old suggestions until we all give up and go on to the next game.

[Battlefront.com]

Dirtweasle,

When testing complex systems sometimes at first it's ok to throw a dart blind folded at a problem if you've had a lot of practice as you may hit the bullseye, but after a couple throws, me, I go methodical.

And how do we do that? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of possible combinations of hardware/software out there. We've already taken down dozens of users' data on what systems they have and we found no common thread. So we went methodical and are now left with shooting in the dark, so to speak. We follow up promissing leads wherever they come from. Many people have been helped in the process, but there are still are several fundamental problems we have yet to identifiy.

Right now all we and you know is how the symptom presents. If you don't get to the next step and document the problem and confirm it you could post old suggestions until we all give up and go on to the next game.

The problem you don't seem to understand here is that there is one symptom, but there is definitely more than one cause for it. Kinda like the symptoms of a dead person is no pulse. There are MANY possible causes of death, so the lack of a pulse doesn't really help out much. We're seeing the same thing here with the nVidia card. We are convinced that there is no one problem that is dogging you guys with 8800 cards and have, in fact, proved that several times now.

In short... there is no one magic bullet fix for this problem.

The truth is that these "throw a dart blind folded" posts people have been helped. Look at the post just before yours... sounds like about a 50% increase in FPS for Allah's Fist. I'm sorry it didn't help you out, but that's beyond our control.

Here is a quote from an OpenGL discussion board:

Well, to be honest, it makes OpenGL (or at least its NVidia implementation, don't know how ATI compares) absolutely unusable in practise until it's fixed if you're trying to release a game with any modern/next-gen effects. I'm not that worried right now, because I'm still years away from a release, but then every time there is a problem. It feels a bit like a mirage: each driver has a serious flaw/bug, that supposedly get fixed in a later version, but a new generation of video cards arrives and the old drivers become low priority, while the ones for the new cards are not mature yet. At least, that's been my experience in the past 2 years.

And we are suffering through the same problems now

Steve

[Michael Withstand]

Be patient young Padawan.

Battlefront is top notch in its patch support.

They are doing everything they can right now.

I've always admired their CM series. But I have to admit that their shock force might need a little further compatibility testing. But it's a gem though an unpolished one due to some performance issues. Once this resolved it would shine.

[Hawkmek]

Dirtweasle,

I would lock my doors and monitor your CCTV intently the next few days. I think I may have deciphered Battlefronts' "message" concerning your concern and I am concerned for your well-being.

You may be getting a visit from the Bald One in the near future, in the wee hours, in your room, while you slumber.

I submit the evidence quoted directly from Battlefront :

</font>

• We've already taken down dozens of users</font>
• shooting in the dark</font>
• symptoms of a dead person is no pulse.</font>
• There are MANY possible causes of death</font>
• there is ...one magic bullet</font>
• throw a dart</font>
• Look at...Allah's Fist</font>

I don't know what Allah's Fist is, but it doesn't sound pleasant.

Watch yer back, man.*

*eParody brought to you by me...and Budweiser

[Battlefront.com]

Hawkmek,

I don't know what Allah's Fist is, but it doesn't sound pleasan

It's one of two "huge" scenarios that tend to kill framerate far more than the others. In other words, it is a very good worst case scenario to use to benchmark the worst performance conditions on a system. If you can get good performance there, you're going to do even better for the average scenario.

The Bald One is too busy to make house calls anyway

Steve

[Michael Withstand]

Originally posted by Hawkmek:

Dirtweasle,

I would lock my doors and monitor your CCTV intently the next few days. I think I may have deciphered Battlefronts' "message" concerning your concern and I am concerned for your well-being.

You may be getting a visit from the Bald One in the near future, in the wee hours, in your room, while you slumber.

I submit the evidence quoted directly from Battlefront :

</font>

• We've already taken down dozens of users</font>
• shooting in the dark</font>
• symptoms of a dead person is no pulse.</font>
• There are MANY possible causes of death</font>
• there is ...one magic bullet</font>
• throw a dart</font>
• Look at...Allah's Fist</font>

I don't know what Allah's Fist is, but it doesn't sound pleasant.

Watch yer back, man.*

*eParody brought to you by me...and Budweiser

Oh yea just noticed the words too. If you can, hire Barney the dinosaur to melt any Battlefron't assassin coming yourway...a huge hug usually suffice.

[Hawkmek]

Pertaining to Allah's Fist; BFC said: It's one of two "huge" scenarios that tend to kill framerate far more than the others.

Yes I am familiar with Allah's Fist. I had Big Fun with that one. (and he never called back)

Seriously though -

I am getting 25 FPS on Allah startup.

That is with newest BETA drivers and balanced settings. Alt+Tab makes no difference.

Athlon XP 2800+

1 Gb Ram

Leadtek 6600GT

[Sgt Joch]

Q7. Opengl runs slow on Vista.

A. The current Opengl ICD in Vista has had to undergo massive changes in structure to be compatible with the way Vista accesses APIS and hardware, the Opengl in vista will get faster as time continues to pass. already, most games are running at 95% of the performance of XP.

This can't be good news for VISTA owners. It is getting to the point that now that I have CMSF running well on my system, I am afraid to upgrade any component lest I screw things up.

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

And how do we do that? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of possible combinations of hardware/software out there...

(skiiping ahead... DW)

...We're seeing the same thing here with the nVidia card.

So how does your test system perform? You say you have a system that is also perfomring poorly, you're seeing the same thing. Are you able to sustain 24 or better FPS with the Allah scenario? Are you able to sustain >12 FPS? Have you trapped the problem on your system and found a fix?

I'm not familiar with testing 3d graphics rendering, but in my area of expertise we start from our gear and test out toward the customer, and methodically clear the trouble that way. I lead a team of telecom repair testers, have done it in the past and get involved in myself testing complex systems. I've learned over the years that even when tempted to throw the problem back to the customer equipment you had best be 100% sure you've got the thing nailed. Because if you don't, well you're just setting yourself up for more trouble if you're honest with yourself.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

We follow up promissing leads wherever they come from.

Sure, but this last effort of yours though, be honest, was and I hope will remain the low point. It sure looks like you didn't even check to see if what was in that forum post was someting you had already suggested, or what the revelancy of the suggestions were.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Many people have been helped in the process, but there are still are several fundamental problems we have yet to identifiy.

Many people with 8800 cards seem to be satsifed with turning down the settings in CMSF to get decent frame rates, and I agree the problem(s) likely have not been identified.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

We are convinced that there is no one problem that is dogging you guys with 8800 cards and have, in fact, proved that several times now.

Maybe there are a more than one for the 8800 issue, or are you referring to other stability issues and fixes? Because each one of the little things you've suggested so far has done what exactly for the 8800's?

The power management hot MS fix thing was not about the 8800 card issue, was it?

The CPU affinity setting was not about the 8800 card issue, was it?

I do agree that the alt-tabbing shows there is something going on especially with the 320mb card, and it results in a loss of a few frames per second, but even with a fresh reset using the alt-tab w still have a problem. I have a 8800 GTS 640, are you saying that CMSF should be over running 640mb of video RAM the moment the scenario starts?

On the 11th you posted, Check out this article too: Defects in 8800 series cards, especially 8800GTS 320MB

In that article it says;

The problem lies in fact that the G80 GPU has some trouble with texture memory management. In many unrelated cases, this bug starts leaving textures in video memory and system memory, causing the board to run out of texture memory. Once you run out of memory for textures on your graphics card and system, you will experience a lot of swapping with textures on a hard drive, and that is recipe for disaster, at least as far as framerates are concerned.

Some games are more affected than others, it all depends on how the game engine is handling textures.

That tells me it's NOT cut and dried as the first line of the articel would have one think. What it tells me is yea there is a problem (as the alt tabbing shows I assume) *BUT* it all depends on how the game engine is handling textures.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

The truth is that these "throw a dart blind folded" posts people have been helped. Look at the post just before yours... sounds like about a 50% increase in FPS for Allah's Fist. I'm sorry it didn't help you out, but that's beyond our control.

He's running the game on a Geforce 7600GT and has his settings lowered! Look what he wrote in the "General Stability" thread;

Of course with so many changes since release, I can't be certain I haven't got something installed I shouldn't or something missing that should be installed, ...

Untill you know what the problem (problems) really is there is no way you can say you've fixed it.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Here is a quote from an OpenGL discussion board:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Well, to be honest, it makes OpenGL (or at least its NVidia implementation, don't know how ATI compares) absolutely unusable in practise until it's fixed if you're trying to release a game with any modern/next-gen effects. I'm not that worried right now, because I'm still years away from a release, but then every time there is a problem. It feels a bit like a mirage: each driver has a serious flaw/bug, that supposedly get fixed in a later version, but a new generation of video cards arrives and the old drivers become low priority, while the ones for the new cards are not mature yet. At least, that's been my experience in the past 2 years.

And we are suffering through the same problems now

Steve </font>

[Melnibone]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

Seriously though, in some threads you seem like you and your folks are seriously engaged and working to find the problem(s), in others it's as if you think your customers are a waste of your time or something.

Jeez...it must be a great job spending time trying to help people like you.

[Huntarr]

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=45174&hl=combat+mission

Get over there and help out

[The DesertFox]

Originally posted by Huntarr:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=45174&hl=combat+mission

Get over there and help out

Quote from that site:

Although the site is occasionally moderated by NVIDIA employees, it is intended only as a way for visitors to get answers from other visitors, and not to get answers from NVIDIA. Although NVIDIA employees MAY occasionally offer help or suggestions, when you post a problem or a request for help, it will most likely be other NVIDIA customers or users who respond at whatever level they are able, according to their own experience and level of technical expertise. Please observe all of the following rules