Built-in Video Memory on NEW Laptops

[TankDawg]

Hi Guys,

Getting ready to purchase a laptop to take with me to Iraq.

I lot of the newest ones come with integrated video memory built right into the motherboard. I know ATI and nVidia stuff pretty well, but not sure what TOshiba, Compaq and others are using for this 'integrated' video memory.

Any 'dos' and 'dont's' that I should know of?

Thanks in Advance,

[Schrullenhaft]

If you can afford it, I'd recommend sticking with anything that is NVidia 'Go' series or ATI Radeon Mobility. Other intergrated video solutions you may see could be based on S3/VIA (ProSavage DDR KN/PN 266 series), SiS (648MX, M661MX, M661FX, M650), Trident (CyberBlade series), Intel (852GM, 830GM). Intel integrated grpahics seem to be popular for low-end Intel CPU laptops. They use the same drivers as the 845/865 series of desktop integrated graphics, so updates may be fairly frequent.

Integrated video chipsets are poor performers most of the time when it comes to 3D. Their dependence on system memory means that they operate significantly slower than good desktop video cards with dedicated memory. The Radeon Mobility line is very popular in laptops, but I'm not sure how lackluster their performance is utilizing shared memory. They should perform a bit slower than their equivalent desktop cousins. Most of the integrated video chipsets should be able to hand CM (with some exceptions due to drivers - the SiS650 had problems in the past). But their performance will be bad enough that a dedicated memory video chipset is definitely worth the added cost if playing CM is going to be one of your primary past times.

Interestingly ATI is making several of their Radeon Mobility chips into 'integrated memory' models. Looking at Compaq/HP's line, several of the models have the 'integrated memory'. The Compaq X1000 series starts at US$1200 (after rebate) and it has a Radeon Mobility 7500c with 32Mb of dedicated memory.

If you do get a laptop with a 'shared memory' display system, get a memory upgrade to go with it (256 to 512Mb - total - should be OK) and try to get one that can use up to 64Mb of RAM.

You'll usually see the S3/VIA, SiS and Trident models on low-end non-brand name laptops. These may work OK and might even show fog for some of the newest chipsets. However most of the time these video solutions will have drivers with bugs that may not get fixed too often. With Intel, NVidia and ATI you'll get something that will probably have some decent drivers - or at least have the possibility of getting bug-fixes in the future.

The Satellite Series is Toshiba's "affordable" range and their lowest models use the Intel shared-memory architecture (852M), but the 5205 uses a GeForce Go FX5600 w/ 64Mb dedicated. Surprisingly some of the higher end Satellites are using a GeForce Go FX5200 instead (which should be a lesser performer).

The Dell Inspirion 5100 is one of their lower priced units (comparitively speaking) that has a video controller with dedicated memory (Radeon 7500 Mobility w/ 32Mb). Lower end units have the Intel Mobile chipset integrated video (which will lack fog, just like the Radeons). The Inspirion 5150 has a GeForce Go FX5200 (32 or 64Mb).

I'm not sure who has the best drivers here. The GeForce Go FX series might be the best choice in terms of supporting all of CM's features and having fairly decent performance for a laptop (though the FX 5200 may have a 'color' problem at the moment - and they'll have the same issues as the desktop drivers).

[ December 15, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[TankDawg]

Thanks for such a thorough reply! It was really helpful. Am currently considering both the HP Pavilion Notebook PC with Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.66GHz and some Toshibas.

Thanks again,

[Redwolf]

I'm trying to make up my mind about one of these Centrino notebooks.

Evil choice and so cheap compared to what it was, a good CM notebook for $1000? I'm so tempted.

Toshibawith Intel 852M graphics and 1024x768 display for $1029

Sony with GeForce and 1600x1200 for $1529

[ December 16, 2003, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Schrullenhaft]

The Toshiba looks fairly nice. It looks like the only reason for the price difference between the two (from what specs are posted) is the resolution/quality of the LCD and the display grahpics.

The FX's will have their driver problems, but will support fog (and there's a higher res on the Sony). The Intel 852G video will generally be trouble-free driver-wise (though I haven't checked the drivers lately - they're related to the 845/865G), but they'll lack in fog and speed.

So for $500 you're paying for whatever quality differences exist between the displays. This may be something that you would have to see first hand to make a decision on, but CM will definitely play faster on the Sony (at least for scrolling around the battlefield issuing orders).

[Biff]

Originally posted by Schrullenhaft:

The Toshiba looks fairly nice. It looks like the only reason for the price difference between the two (from what specs are posted) is the resolution/quality of the LCD and the display grahpics.

The FX's will have their driver problems, but will support fog (and there's a higher res on the Sony). The Intel 852G video will generally be trouble-free driver-wise (though I haven't checked the drivers lately - they're related to the 845/865G), but they'll lack in fog and speed.

So for $500 you're paying for whatever quality differences exist between the displays. This may be something that you would have to see first hand to make a decision on, but CM will definitely play faster on the Sony (at least for scrolling around the battlefield issuing orders).

I've got a Toshiba Satellite with a Nvidia Geforce2go chip in it and while the system works pretty well (running Win2000) the Toshiba video driver support sucks. Toshiba is very conservative about releasing driver updates when Nvidia releases them and the Nvidia releases don't support the Geforce2go chips unless you find a "special" version of the nv4_disp.inf file. This has been one of the things that has bothered me the most about the Toshiba/Nvidia combo.

[Schrullenhaft]

This is true of most laptop manufacturers. That's why a laptop as a gaming platform is a bit problematic... the video driver updates are far less frequent than for the desktop equivalent. And video drivers are usually one of the most common problems with many games.

Laptop video drivers have to be customized to support certain LCD displays and thus the graphics chip OEMs don't offer a generic driver (though if they did it would probably work in a majority of situations). This means that you're at the mercy of the original contract between the laptop manufacturer and the graphic chip OEM. Such details as the frequency of driver updates, features, etc. can be part of these contracts (which also only last for so long too).

NVidia Go drivers have be somewhat easier to find since some third party sites are posting some of the versions (which should usually work for most laptops). However the updates for the Gos are far less frequent.

[Redwolf]

What Schrullenhaft said.

I didn't order any of the notebooks yet.

I don't like Toshiba's attitude towards video chips and video drivers. They just don't seem to do the right thing if you want good video and may be forced to play with drivers.

The Sony is a "mumble" casem Sony is on the forefront of some digital rights movements and for starters they might have one of the few DVD drives where I can't kill region encoding.

BTW, the funny thing about these seperate notebook drivers (that generic drivers don't work) is that the Linux drivers will work on both desktops and notebooks without any problems (seen it for Intel chips, Nvidia and ATI). Go figure.

I think that one of the store/generic brands of notebook might actually be a better choice for me. Standard parts junked together, few integration games played.

[TankDawg]

Started new thread on this:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=004305