Billy Riley Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (not related to my problem in the CM:SF forum...unless it is, again, my lack of understanding) I've been playing out the Villers Bocage scenario and I have an issue with spotting. For some crazy mad reason, I took my Wittman Tiger over to the east of his startup location to the junction where the road from Wittmans location meets the big road the allies will be moving up. Now, eventually, I see several icons indicating the enemy, so I order Wittman to fire, and all I keep getting is messages saying he does not have LoS. So I move him down the slope, closer to the allies, and to the brow of the next hill (very small incline) and I get the same message...all the while, I'm taking hits from the Allied tanks. I eventually have to move him from what I see as a perfect hull down position to a more exposed position on the hill, and he's more often than not taken out. I can eventually fire, but not from the position I was hoping. I was hoping that I could get him to attack at the longer range, but he refuses to do so, saying he doesn't have LoS. I then hoped to get him in a hull down position on the smaller incline but whilst he is taking hits, he will not fire...again no LoS. I eventually have to expose him before he'll fire. Is there still a LoS issue with the game? Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ht-57 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Did you try "area target" instead of direct targeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Well, I haven't ht-57...but tbch, I don't see how that remedies the issue which is I am taking hits from tanks lower than me, which I can see whilst in a hull down position and they are, it seems, in the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ht-57 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Area fire is kinda like mortor fire, its not fired directly at you in a straight level line. Its shot up and over into your general "area". Even thow you are in a hulldown and higher position, thier shells may be hitting you from above. Instead of using the "attack" icon try the "area" icon. Most likley the reason you can't get a sraight on shot is because the barrel on the tiger will not lower to the desired elevation, and/or it is blocked by the very item you are deriving the hulldown positon from. Good luck and happy hunting sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 ht-57 I know how to perform area fire...I just don't think it's appropriate in this instance. From my perspective, the tank has CLEAR LoS to the enemy...they just don't think they have. I could be wrong, but to be completely honest, I personally think it's porked. I'm taking hits from units I can see but apparently can't trace LoS to...even though it appears to me I have very good LoS to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Thx for taking the time to answer though. At least you tried ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmayer Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Billy Riley, To answer your question as to why you couldn't get LoS on enemy. First thing is that the Tiger haveing a larger gun then most didn't have the ability to get lower angles that other tanks had. Hull down possitions for tigers are not easy because of that factor. The gun just won't lower enough to get the hull down shot unless it is shooting at a target far off. Next time try hauling down from a farther off posistion and see if that helps you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'm pretty sure the "hull down" is more of an exaggeration in that the hill is pretty tame...(if anyone has played this download mission, perhaps they know the hill I'm talking about) Well, there's nothing else to try. THx...I'll try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAT502 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Ok best thing to do is this. Move Wittmann to the barn two fields infront of you and place him to the right corner and select defend location. Then move the rest of the section in line, put one Tiger just to the right of Wittmann but don`t go too far as a 6pdr will have you. Hope you enjoy it. It can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Billy I think I may have some idea of what is happening here. In any event, this info may be useful to you. I recently made a HMG firing position using some stone fencing and sandbags in the map editor. I wanted to test how many moving squads an HMG could successfully engage in typical terrain situations before being wiped out. I found out that with good cover, they could hold out against up to two complete squads of rifle infantry storming their position with a better than average chance of destroying all enemy combatants. But I also found out something else, if I setup the HMG (which btw, is treated like a vehicle in the game) back from the cover position just one click (minimum allowable movement) the HMG crew could not see squat until the enemy soldiers were almost directly on top of them. Needless to say, they didn't survive long. It was a combination of the terrain, the minimum resolution of the 3-d world and the cover position that made the difference between killing 18-20 soldiers at range and being overwhelmed and wiped out at a very short spotting range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I know that doesn't answer your "why they can shoot at me, but I can't shoot at them" question, but I believe it is part of the equation for the problem you are having. I think in this case one of the other respondents was correct in stating that the minimum barrel deflection on your Tiger is insufficient to target the enemy. I've seen that quite a bit in this game..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Riley Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 I'm just going to try it out...bit one thing I noticed with this scenario (when I first spotted it, I thought I was crazy...but I've just seen it again)...when playing this the first time, I was certain I saw Wittman as a loader in one of the Tigers. When I loaded the scenario again to try it, he was commander. But I've just loaded it again, and he's loader. Does the game dynamically allocate people to units/positions? Even though< I presume, the scenario creator made Wittman a commander in a tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 No matter what else is said here, the fact is that there are times when your tank is loaded, has LOS but refuses to fire. The enemy which has a more difficult target is firing at you but your tank sits there waiting to die. It is possibly the most frustrating bug in the game. It happens. No matter how others try to explain it. Using "area fire" is a work-around for this bug. A poor work-around but at least your tank fires.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helm123 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Originally posted by Rapier: No matter what else is said here, the fact is that there are times when your tank is loaded, has LOS but refuses to fire. The enemy which has a more difficult target is firing at you but your tank sits there waiting to die. It is possibly the most frustrating bug in the game. It happens. No matter how others try to explain it. Using "area fire" is a work-around for this bug. A poor work-around but at least your tank fires.... This may work, but it's just plain crazy that you would need to resort to this. Area fire with AP rounds is about the craziest thing I have ever heard. Kinda like catching a fart in a wind storm. HE rounds I can see, but AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brastias Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 From what I've read, unless aimed by the player, guns target the hull of enemy tanks as a default. I my experience this often leads to situations where the enemy can see and shoot at your tank's turret while it won't fire back since it can't see the enemy hull (middle part). I've noticed that by targeting turrets you'll almost never end up in that situation. Furthermore, since it is usually easy to disable tanks' guns in ToW, it has the additional benefit of taking care of those monster tanks your opponent sometimes shows up in. I find it's by far the most effective way of stopping Tiger's/JS2's etc. Just knock out their guns and then finish them off at your leisure. Also, although I haven't really tested it enough to say for sure, putting tanks in "Defend" mode seems to make them try to find the best possible position (including hull down) in the area they're currently occupying. I'm sure someone out there with more experience can better describe how that's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbear Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 well i play the mission i did not use the hull down tactics but i think the problem is as Brastias say the default target is the hull of the tank and could not point to it from a hull down position. also this mission seens to be difficult to finish those AT guns in the town are waiting for you when you get close to the town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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