Recoilless rifles, any good?

[BigDork]

A PBEM partner of mine and co-moderator of a small CM forum we started up on a frieds site asked the following and I couldn't really give a good answer...

Does anyone know what recoilless rifles are good for?

It was brought up because I was doing an AAR and mentioned I bought a 57mm RR because I'd never used one before and wanted to try it out. But I now have mixed feelings on them and would need to play with them some more.

So can someone fill me in?

[flamingknives]

The real strength of the RR isn't really obvious in CM - basically, by doing away with the recoil machanism and heavy carriage, they can be dropped with paratroops, plus you can cart them up steep terrain that is impassable to most vehicles and by association, towed artillery.

This sort of manoeuvre isn't modelled in CM, so you just get a lower transport class for a given calibre.

[Kingfish]

One advantage is their loadouts of shaped charges, which retain the same penetration value regardless of range. Thus, a 57mm RR will still be able to kill tanks at distances too far for a regular 57mm gun firing AP shells.

The flip side is the huge plume of smoke that is generated whenever the RR fires. It is the equivilent to the crew holding up a flashing neon sign that reads "I'm here, shoot me"

[flamingknives]

Conversely, the 57mm RR has a comparitively low MV compared to the 57mm gun (same as 6pdr) which makes it inaccurate at long range.

As the 57mm ATG is quite a competant ATG in the first place, the range at which the HC effect is superior is rather above that which it is accurate.

It's probably better than a bazooka though, given its higher ammo loadout and HE shells

[BigDork]

So on a whole, is it worth it to get one every now and then in CMBO?

[Gen. Longstreet]

I remember buying a RR once, I routed squads with about a single shot

[Maj. Battaglia]

Yes, it can be worth getting a RR once in a while.

As flamingknives suggests, on of the main points of them was to give light and airborne troops some direct-fire AT/arty, primarily for defense against tank counterattack after dropping behind the lines. So if your QB is simulating such a thing, include them.

But if your QB has no quasi-historical basis, they can still be useful attacking a town when you don't have the points for an SP gun. I think bang-for-the-buck wise, on defense, a traditional AT gun is better.

[ November 07, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Maj. Battaglia ]

[Redwolf]

In CM, the main noticale difference is that the small RCLs can drop out of a transport vehicle and shoot instantly, without prolonged setup time.

They are the only AT weapon with more than 225m meters range that do this.

I didn't try, but I think you might be able to set up the small RCLs in upper floors of buildings. If you try let us know.

[flamingknives]

The German 105mm RR is a pretty vicious piece of kit. Well worth it IMHO.

[JasonC]

The US 57mm RR is quite a useful weapon. You should treat it as a sort of uber-bazooka, and take 1-2 to a company. Its penetration is lower, but what it amount to is that you need flank shots against most full AFVs while you can deal with light armor from any aspect. Only Tigers are invulnerable. Panthers can be a little tougher with high side angle to a flank than 30mm side "vanilla" AFVs, but you can still get them.

The range and accuracy put the zook to shame. At 200m where a zook has only a few percent, the RR will have hit chances in the 80s. It can hit and kill at 500m easily. You do want to use it with a high initial hit chance, because the visible backblast can draw fire, so 2 shots had better do the trick on the guy you are shooting at (maybe 3 if he has to rotate and has no turret).

They are slow speed and transport class 2. This makes them much easier to move around than ATGs. They can ride on the back of a tank, and move on the map as well as an 81mm mortar. Cost the same, too. Their HE blast is limited, though, so their anti-infantry ability is modest. It is still about as strong as a 60mm mortar, and better against buildings (more likely to hit directly). They will also kill wooden bunkers at longer ranges than zooks. You can try them against the firing slits of concrete ones.

They belong in your heavy weapons support groups, along with heavy MGs, mortars, snipers, and FOs. They are quite cheap, half the cost of a 57mm ATG and the same price as an 81mm mortar or 50 cal. They cover a much wider area by threat than zooks do, so you don't need to push them close. Let the line platoons take the zooks forward. It does help to have 2 of them in separated overwatch groups, to increase chances of a flank shot.

They can also work with zooks that way - the RR forces the enemy to face your overwatch location, while the zook gets close on a side. The target can't then turn to face the zook without dying to the RR. Or with AFVs, with the RR shooting from the unexpected direction. Compared to ATGs they can actually move out of your set up zone comparatively easily, and compared to AFVs they are quite "stealthy" since they can move through cover.

They are quite different from the heavier German 75 and 105 RRs, which are full sized artillery pieces with "very slow" speed, i.e. practically stationary. Those have higher ammo loads and much higher blast. Most allied armor is weak enough for their HEAT to be effective, though the 105 is better obviously.

The German 105 RR is a reasonable choice to get strong anti-infantry ability along with decent AT ability. For the cheap AT role the US gets late from 57mm RRs, the German counterpart is the puppchen rather than the RRs. It kills anything reliably from the front, out to medium range, for a very low cost. The same range and accuracy advantage the US 57mm RR has over the bazooka, the puppchen has over the panzerscreck. The downside is the puppchen is "very slow" speed, aka basically a stationary gun.

[Broken]

The main advantage of RR over conventional Guns is their ease of transport and higher mobility. A german 105mm RR can be transported by a Kubelwagon, for instance. As Jason points out, the 57mm can be transported on tanks.

The RRs as a class move on foot faster, setup faster, and carry more HC AT rounds than equivalent conventional field guns or howitzers. On defense, a gun which can be pushed at a reasonable speed by the crew alone allows you to re-orient your defense quicker without having to buy a lot of expensive transport.

The disadvantages of the RR class include: they are very easy to spot when firing, less accurate, and slightly higher cost.