Thinking of buying? Make no mistake, This is not a wargame.

[Ross_Moorhouse]

No game truly reflects what goes on in war. It is a game. If you want to experience war for real then there are some places in the world that will give this to you.

Having worked on the re-release of Close Combat for SimTek and played many years of CC I can say that ToW is amazing. It is a breath of fresh air in the wargaming market. I hope that BF and 1C make addons for this game. I hope that this game engine goes on and becomes the standard that other game developers have to aim for.

[Chazman]

If this clunker is a breath of fresh air, I hate to think where you have had your nose stuck all this time?

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by Chazman:

If this clunker is a breath of fresh air, I hate to think where you have had your nose stuck all this time?

15 negative and non constructive posts and counting.

[chanss]

Originally posted by Chazman:

If this clunker is a breath of fresh air, I hate to think where you have had your nose stuck all this time?

Hehe.....the game is good, all the crying you can possible make here wont change that.

[Panzerdude]

Seeing the same problem, I found that it only occurs in I don't select one of the three movement choices: Double Time, Dash or Crawl. Once you select those, I usually select Dash, the officers will stick with their men.

The initial "whatever" movement mode, seems to tell the men, "just wander around". Selecting Dash has also kept my guys alive longer than not selecting a movement mode from the beginning.

[Tontoman]

It should run sweet on your machine.

P4 2.66

1GB ram

X850 vid (256MB)

All good brand name standard parts and home built.

Runs smooth(demo). But I also have issues with the combat engine, maybe that will be fixed in patches. Reminds me of CC3 when the tank uber spotting and AI trouble came up.

T.

[Gen Schmaeterling]

Originally posted by Chazman:

If this clunker is a breath of fresh air, I hate to think where you have had your nose stuck all this time?

I can't believe this guy! Does he not have anything better to do?

If you don't like the game, please leave already, or leave constructive comments for its improvement.

[Redmarkus4]

Here's my few thoughts after palying through some of the missions:

1. There's a mix of RTS and turn-based CM-type gameplay here that takes a bit of getting used to: I'm still annoyed by the endless waves of tanks that keep appearing to counter attack each advance. It would be much better if the map moved forward and a new battle started, as in CM.

2. This is a great game (potentially) and very nice to look at, BUT we need a huge patch and some mods from the community:

- Waypoints

- LOS tools

- Better AI

- Better Editor plus a map editor

- More realistic force mix

- Ability to enter buildings

- Ability to start entrenched as attacker, rather than just sitting in an open field in full view of the enemy.

- Fire and Move battle drills: a standard in WW2 for most armies.

- Remove the ability of infantry to occupy abandoned tanks: it just wouldn't happen. Have you ever looked inside a tank that lost half its crew? Believe me, you wouldn't be climbing into that mess.

I'm sticking with it and praying it will get better, but I'll be playing CM until then.

MJ

[seppDieter]

Originally posted by Redmarkus4:

I'm sticking with it and praying it will get better, but I'll be playing CM until then.

MJ

exactly! only i will be playing CC until then.

the game has great potential, but for now im not buying it. its not fun for me yet.

im optimistic when i say that in about one year there should be total mods out(or the game is dead). as i don't really think the game developers will improve the game further on. maybe they will release a patch or 2, but i fear the official patches will be nothing more than fixes and tweaks. they are defenately not going to do big changes to the game, like smoke, houses, mortars, LOS, cover, supression, etc...

as most will agree, this game has potential.

but its in the hand of the community, dont expect much from the official side!

[Chazman]

"I can't believe this guy! Does he not have anything better to do?

If you don't like the game, please leave already, or leave constructive comments for its improvement."

This game is beyond improvement, you would have to start all over from scratch.

I bet you shills and sycophants would love to have all the dissatisfied leave the board, that way the unsuspecting wouldn't get a proper "Caveat Emptor" to this stinker.

[Hassen]

Originally posted by Destraex:

Chazman

Are you not a CM player? Stick men, your joking right compared to the mr potatoe head CM men that look like clown heads rotating

Anyway I found that amusing as I find it easy to command and control and still zoom in for the awesome detailed action

Don't worry dude, he hasn't even played the game...

[Hassen]

"Have you ever looked inside a tank that lost half its crew? Believe me, you wouldn't be climbing into that mess."

Haha, very good point. Swimming in tomato sauce anyone?

[Knowsknone]

Everyone that hates this game expected a Company of Heroes-like clone, even though I love that game, where at 2 feet away the soldiers with bottomless clips fire off over 150 rounds to WOUND one guy. This game was built to simulate war from 3rd person, as realistically as possible. Thats why good soldiers in this game are able to hit a target at over 300meters. Everyone who says this is pure eye-candy must almost be stupid, COH is pure eye-candy this game has good visuals but the main focus is on the battles not the butterflies landing on the foliage.

I almost bought this game but decided to wait and download the demo, and although it has a few boring spots, the combat is superb, in this game not every single tanks explodes into a hundred pieces. I have only seen 3-4 tanks actually blow up. Also why does everyone complain about the camera and GUI? I adapted to it by the end of the first tutorial, it is extremly simple and to the point, although I have to admit the way all of the keys are setup it can be a little difficult to manage your troops and turn, move and rotate the camera all at once. I guess that is why they invented a pause button eh? Its there use it, I pause, gander at the penetration marks on tanks then micro some troops, decide what tanks are a priority and should be tackled first.

Then again the LOS thing is funny but realistic, there is something called a "scout" skill on all soldiers, as said in the tutorial they are used to spot enemies and not be seen themselves. When there are tanks firing on you from behind a hedgerow there are probably infantry that can see you, or even the tank commander is using his binoculars... Either way I enjoy the fact that infantry can sneak up on you.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

It's not a wargame?

Well, let's look to the experts to see what's worthwhile in this regard, as to what's to be valued in terms of "wargaming." For 2006, the winner is:

http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/distant_guns/

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/articles.php?page=1&p=3170&page=3

Never mind, anyone, that Distant Guns was a died-in-the-wool basket case that was released in beta-state, complete with directions on how to email your saved games to the programmer so that he could fix it in the "next" patch (it's currently on revision #50 I understand). The "wargaming" media took it on itself to intervene on behalf of the game as nay-sayers "trolled" game forums attacking this little jewel. What ensued was an orchestrated effort on the part of the developer and their surrogate reviewer to suppress "bad-news" about this POS, to turn chicken-**** into chicken salad, and to publicly undermine the credibility of anyone who tried to challenge them.

And what do folks who actually GAF enough about the subject-matter to wade through it's peculiarities have to say about this classic bit of programming. Well, here's a summation of the current state of affairs surrounding the much celebrated Distant Guns:

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/distant-guns/65931-who-still-playing-distant-guns-just-checking.html

And why rant about another game by another developer and publisher? Well, some of you appear to have no sense of proportion or scale, WHATSOEVER, as regards to any responsible evaluation of what's a wargame and what's not, that's why. I really don't care how Combat Mission handles armour penetration or ballistics because it is turn-based and, therefore, inherently unrealistic. I also don't care about glitzy, CoH-style games as I'm not interested in base-building strategy titles. I'm a wargamer and I want to see my hobby evolve with technology as I believed that it was destined to do a decade ago. ToW can help carry us there, if you're only willing to allow it to do so. That said, I suspect that several of the loudest voices, hereabouts, simply are not.

PoE

[Redmarkus4]

POE,

I didn't buy Distant Guns, but I totally agree with your closing paragraph. ToW definitely takes the realistic wargaming arena forward.

Let's hope the community starts pumping out the mods needed to make this game all it can be.

MJ

[Fetid]

I'm a wargamer too. I design them as well as play them. I don't write computer code, but imagine playing Advanced Squad Leader without buildings. Combat Mission is turned based but the turns are paused and simultaneously resolved so that it is more realistic than a true I Go You Go turn based game. But before this can be a proper wargame a few things must be corrected. 88Lmm AA guns for the Germans must be added. How could one even think of having early war scenarios without a flak gun in the roster. They were even up with the Reconn Battalions incase they ran into serious trouble in an advance. German tanks are no match for the Matilda, the Sumoa35, and the Char B. Moveable MGs and at least light mortars were standard equipment for companies and should be included as available for platoons. With so many frontal assaults expected, SMOKE is a must. Ala CM. Smoke for tanks, infantry, artillery, mortars, and guns. Line of fire and Line of sight should not be able to penetrate trees, buildings, or rock (ground) as has been reported as occuring. LOF and LOS are MUTUAL. No matter what game you are playing. If I can see you, you can see me. With some variance of course. A unit in a building or trees can see a unit in an open field that's well lit much better than a unit can be seen from those areas. The woods are dark, even in daylight. In ASL, when an ATG fires from the woods, there's a good chance that no one will see the shot or where it came from so that the gun is still undetected. Tanks must be able to reverse and some measure of control over units must be present. Remember the "death crawl" from Close Combat? Look, I like to move stuff around and shoot at stuff too, especially when the snow is falling and the environment looks so real. But the above items I mentioned are STANDARD for any decent wargame. They should have been in the mix before release and they should definitely have been noticed in playtesting. Now, they should be fixed yesterday or at least tommorrow. It's not Battlefronts fault, but it's not whining to complain about basic elements that should be in any wargame. It's the facts. I have to sympathize with Chazzman on this even though I don't blame Battlefront.

[Vegeorite]

Hey, some serious comments.

Fetid, "Tanks must be able to reverse and some measure of control over units must be present."

They do: it is.

"If I can see you, you can see me."

Not necessarily so - or I'll never trust my net-curtains again! :eek:

[ April 29, 2007, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: Vegeorite ]

[westyorksgaz]

Got to agree with some of the points made.and add a few of my own.i lovs playing ww2 strategy games.played most of them over the years most good some bad.and to be honest..i was very disappointed with this one..i know its not like CMBB [what is?]. but its just so poor to play for instance..soldiers are nothing more than fodder.strange how your troops die a lot easier than AI ones !.your tanks are knocked out in 1 hit usually..even if a tiger or panther.we are talking tough tanks here.for instance on the first russian campaign mission had a group of infantry behind a wall far side of the village.in laid position..[ie:concealed].

the germans soon wiped my forces out.and then ALL made a b-line for my concealed troops?????

and the biggest letdown suprisingly since it was one of the brilliant features in CM games entering buildings..theres only so many fields and small villages you can fight through before it starts to get dull.

one the plus side it looks brilliant and the smoke from tank exhausts etc are awesome...can i make a genuine suggestion guys? port CMBB over to this engine and sort out building entering etc...and there you will have one hell of a game!!....but as it stands at the moment. well down as far as ww2 strategy games go