Missing TOW Equipment

[ColonelBlimp]

I’ve seen some people say here that the lack of some equipment is not that critical. I would disagree wholeheartedly, and I offer below a list of units that I would dearly like to be included, either in a patch, or a mod, or an expansion pack.

·Flak 88. Literally a great percentage of the early battles will be unplayable without it. Good news for us Brits (Matilda IIs tearing up EVERYTHING) but not for the balance.

·17pdr AT guns

·85mm Russian guns

·76mm Russian guns

·Sherman Firefly for Brits

Any suggestions to be added to the list?

[hunterandhunted]

Put this on the "wishlist for addon " thread my friend.

[stone75]

Why all this concern over needing 88's to take on the feared "MATILDA"!!! Lets see it has a scary top speed of 8mph X-country. A whoping 2pdr AP only firing gun. Oh and a couple of MG's. Fighting at Arras its reported to have had limited succes. Only the 7RTR had them in france so in effect should be quite scarce. Im much worried about mr Somua and mr Char tbh..

[jhmorneau]

I fear this is out of topic, but I wondered if "ColonelBlimp" had something to do with David Low's cartoons in the Evening Standard during WWII ???

I discovered him while making a research in Colindale newpsapers library in 1995.

Did not expect to meet him again as a nickname in 2007, though !

[Camerone]

Don't forget the Renault B1bis ... it is in the game already... hard to take them on without the 88's ... and the B1bis had a deadly 75mm. Without their 88s ...the Germans would have been in greater trouble in Abbeville in May40.

[pannekoek]

it's maybe not a problem in the missions they created because what i read was the balanced them up but NO 88 in al MP battle is F****up

Because you always have tanks which cannot be destroyed in the early war en then there is no balance.

[MikoyanPT]

I think the russian Zis 76 mm are in.

As soon as the PAK 50 mm are available, the matildas are dead meat., and when the PAK 88mm gets available everithing is dead meat.

[stone75]

Ok agreed some tanks are tough nuts but the crew who are poorly trained are still the weak link. This is how the germans acomplished what they did in the early years. In ToW how often do you see tanks abandoned but still serviceable because the crew bolted. I'll wait for the game and only after seeing it in action, condemn it for its shortcomings.

[K9crump]

Wirblewind! Not sure if its in there, but should be. Man, loved that thing on troops in Blitz...lol.

Mike

[user73]

If someone likes to see the 8,8cm Flak in action also a 3,7cm Flak and panzerfaust.

Link

[ColonelBlimp]

Gad, Sir!

The reason I didn't put this in the other thread was that it was more general-people wanting to put in enterable buildings, smoke etc. which would probably need TOW2 and another x years' wait.

Whereas I want to blow up a large number and variety of tanks and people NOW!!

New units could be potentially be added by a mod or patch, whereas I think that stuff like enterable buildings would need a new engine, and basically a new game.

[theBrit]

Originally posted by ColonelBlimp:

New units could be potentially be added by a mod or patch, whereas I think that stuff like enterable buildings would need a new engine, and basically a new game.

Agreed.....

I am sure the boards will be red hot after a few weeks play. A huge list of whats missing 'equipment wise' will grow Im sure. I trust BF to deliver...they seem serious about this product and patches should be swift and regular.

[Flanker15]

Just noticed something:

The tab button for "AA" in the encyclopedia is a picture of an 88! It looks alot like one atleast, why is there no 88 in the game? Might as well call off WW2 and call it "small skirmish between british tanks and Germans with nothing to combat them".

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Yes, I see the mighty Heer now. "OMGWTF, the Tigers ran over our Flak 88s, we should surrender now"

Once again one itty bity thing is being magnified out of all proportion and used to conclude that the entire game must surely suck. Pathetic.

ToW is a perfectly enjoyable game, without 88s, enterable buildings, smoke, mortars and what have you. Would it have been nice if one or more of the above were included? Yes. But you'd be wrong to write the game off because it hasn't. So... TRY THE DEMO!!! Then, perhaps, you can form an opinion.

[Melnibone]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

So... TRY THE DEMO!!! Then, perhaps, you can form an opinion.

Bah Humbug - you'll be telling us next to actually play the game before reviewing it :mad:

[MikoyanPT]

The importance of the 88 FLAK as anti tank weapon in ww2, is of the same importance as elefants where to Hannibal when fighting Rome.

They where very nice of course, but their importance was over rated. Hannibal would won the same battles whithout elefants, and most of the tank killing done by the germans whith artillery pieces was made whith smaller calliber weapons, like the PAK 50mm and the PAK 75mm. In fact the PAK 50mm whith tungsten AP shot could kill any tank in the war (tungsten run out in 1942), and the PAK 75mm could kill anithing in the battlefield whit generic AP shot, as long as the crew had the nerve to waite for the enemy to get closer.

The soviet ZIS 4 57mm gun was more effective as anti tank, than the ZIS 3 76,2mm was(but has artillery whith HE shot it was useless).

The FLAK 88 in antitank role (although important) is as much a myth, has elephants where in the armies of carthage. Very important in a simbolic way, not more.

[ April 13, 2007, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: MikoyanPT ]

[Melnibone]

Originally posted by MikoyanPT:

The FLAK 88 in antitank role (although important) is as much a myth, has elephants where in the armies of carthage. Very important in a simbolic way, not more.

I thought Elefants were in TOW.

[MikoyanPT]

Originally posted by Melnibone:

[/qb]

I thought Elefants were in TOW. [/QB]

[pwncake]

@MikoyanPT

the 88's where an important piece of equipment for the germans in early war.

Never heard of rommel in france /egypt but more important russia 1941 when the germans first met the t34. If they had not had them it would be a disaster for army group centre. The only weapon against the t34 was an 88. This costed them to much time (and armor) so the germans didnt arrive near moscow before the winter had started.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Rubbish! The Germans had many ways of killing T34s, the 88 was just the most spectacular.

There are many, many reasons why the Germans stalled in front of Moscow. T34s and lacking 88s were not significant factors.

[ColonelBlimp]

I'll be mortified if the game is shipped without a 17pdr being in the Brits' inventory, for the simple fact that I would love to see the look on my opponent's face when my 17pdr puts an APDS shell straight through their King Tiger's frontal armour!

Seriously though, I really do doubt that TOW would outlast something like Close Combat, as it rightly should, without it being moddable, or having some expansion packs.

Close Combat is the only game that TOW should be compared to, with a near perfect mix of playability and variety of units. If more units are added, even with the lack of smoke/enterable buildings etc. I think it could even surpass the venerable CC.

[DeLaVega]

I think all you guys are right.

No matter what role the 88 played in France/ Africa/ Russia it had quite an effect on everything it hit. And because of its accuracy it was even used against the firing slits of the Maginot line. Probably you all heard about the crazy inventions the germans had in mind. So, they also attached the barrel of the gun to the Ju-87 Stuka. It almost blew the plane into pieces. But that they wanted to try this at all speaks for the gun, I think.

But, as Elmar said, they had to use more ways to attack the superior T-34`s. The 88`s were just to thinly spread. The main advantage over the French and Russian tanks at these ages was the radio which was installed in the german tanks. So the commanders could communicate not only to their platoon, but also could ask for direct artillery and air support.

For me as a player I have to say that I also like this gun, but, if I recall my playing history I can`t remember what advantage this gun brought me? Maybe it killed a handful of tanks, but each time it was also killed either by overwhelming enemy forces or by artillery/ mortar barrages. This just shows that a static defense line is damned to be broken through. At least in games.

I read about one incident where only one of such a caliber gun showed its worth. A single 90mm american AA gun placed in the middle of the town of Stoumont/ Belgium and stopped Kampfgruppe Peiper until reinforments arrived for a counter-attack during the Ardennes Offensive.

Seems Mr. Peiper hasn`t played Combat Mission before. ...Don`t attack an 90mm AA gun if there`s just one road with Line-of-Sight leading to it.

[Anthon]

Rommel would not have made field marshall if he did not have the 88 to call on.

Saying that logisitics and lack of support and communication also stopped the Brits and the french from taking advantage of any successful counter attacks. They had to return to the start line to refuel and rearm.

The mighty Flak 88 was a rear area defensive unit and deployed at divisional or corps level. It will be missed though in a straight head on clash of early armour units.

The usual encounter in 1940 though was organisationally and tactically, 10 panzer divisions units of 300 tanks, against 100 penny packet units of 3 tanks each.

Where French units met german unit head to head in a co-ordinated armoured unit such as Stonne, the Germans got a very bloody nose, no 88s to fall back on.

[Coy Sgt. Major]

Lacking a Flak 88 or it's later AT equivalent. The out gunned commander will have to rely on manouever and use what assets he does have to accomplish that hard kill on the monster whatever lurking across the field/road/village etc.

The Germans get their Panzerfaust and Panzershrek, the Yanks a Bazooka.

Where pray tell is the PIAT for the Brits and

Canucks?!

As well as the handy dandy Demo-Charge for those brave squaddies and landsers seeking up close and personal involvement, hmmm... Inquiring staff officers want to know as well as senior NCOs..

(pardon the poetry)

[tankibanki]

Originally posted by Coy Sgt. Major:

Lacking a Flak 88 or it's later AT equivalent. The out gunned commander will have to rely on manouever and use what assets he does have to accomplish that hard kill on the monster whatever lurking across the field/road/village etc.

The Germans get their Panzerfaust and Panzershrek, the Yanks a Bazooka.

Where pray tell is the PIAT for the Brits and

Canucks?!

As well as the handy dandy Demo-Charge for those brave squaddies and landsers seeking up close and personal involvement, hmmm... Inquiring staff officers want to know as well as senior NCOs..

(pardon the poetry)

88mm PAK is in as far as I know.