Bug: Face doesnt work with cover arc

[Pandur]

as said, a tracked vehicle cant use Face when it has a cover arc. i think thats a bug!?

also do vehicles tend to face the direction their cover arc is looking after the end of waypoints since 1.02

i see this more often now and it reminds me on TOW. its not really pratical

that was it what made me noticing the bug i described above befor i hardly used face.

[jomni]

Well BF said they fixed the vehicles' self-preservation SOP which means pointing your front hull to the direction of threats.

[Pandur]

lol i had vehicle turning to their arc without a threat, it seems to need no threat, just the arc !?

i mean common...i lay waypoints for 30 sekonds, define the facing by the end direction of the waypoints! and define the facing of the turret if i like it to be different, with the arc!

that totaly is rendered useless, now as the vehicle turns itself often, no matter how i lay the waypoints :confused:

i mean i also have the hull alligned with the turret/gun when i dont have a cover arc, why is it the same behaviour with cover arc!?

also i cant interrup this turning

i could watch the vehicle doing crap for 30 sekonds after it stoped to wait to be able to use face wich is buged with cover arc

EDIT:

if FACE at the end of a waypoint chain would "work" all that wouldnt be needed. you could just face a direction defined from the point of the last waypoint.

[jomni]

cover arc = direction of probable threat.

hehe

[Pandur]

cover arc = direction of probable threat.

hehe, sure, but when ther are 2 threats possible as often!?

i point the hull to the threat i have to endure, and the gun to the one i want to destroy...now i have no control over that

[Bradley Dick]

Your priority of fire should be the more serious threat to your vehicle. Which, by design, is where the front of your vehicle should be facing too. Better to have a big ass diesel engine and some armor in between you and the projectile.

[Pandur]

often you cant just say thats the most serious threat becouse there are more than one or probably some you dont even know about but have to consider them too in the game.

sure, the ones you know about first, but its like chess, if you turn your side to some side and the enemy counters it with a "move" you couldned predict it wasnt safer than if you didnt turned the vehicle. you and me, we tried the best...you would have rotated left and be shot form right and me the opposite but we are not upset becouse of the vehicle AI is resposible but we are!

so i find it disturbing to let the tanks hull get automaticly alligned wiht the maingun/cover arc when you have "exactly" the same behaviour without cover arc too when you use "face" PLUS you can turn you turrent where you want too(where ever you consider it safe) and this game will have moments where this will be a benefit and not a hassle

i dont like the game asuming for me what I think is a safe position or what it thinks i want done...i tell the game what i want done and if it does actions against it by itself thats frustrating than.

you get what i mean!? when this auto rotate would allways be working and good i could take it, but it will never work as close to my likeings as i could do it without this installtion. it takes away contorl simply put...and even worse, gives it to the AI

[Bradley Dick]

Half the people are saying they want the units to act on their own. Half the people are saying they want full control, all the time.

I think it's never going to be exactly the way you want it, unless you start changing the code yourself. That's just the nature of the beast. There's been things I would have preferred or changed in every game I've ever played.

I don't think the track should rotate with the turret 100% of the time, unless it's a self propelled artillery piece, but I don't think that the AI rotating its frontal armor towards a threat is a bad thing.

There are times when you want it to just hold its position, but if it did EXACTLY what you told it to and nothing else it wouldn't even have AI.

[Pandur]

Half the people are saying they want the units to act on their own. Half the people are saying they want full control, all the time.

sure sure...

from my point of view, WE should play/contol the game not the units control themselfs, at least the essential parts. i also wouldnt like reverse behaviour, but that would make more sense in hte face of superiour enemy than this auto rotate wich was such a threat in TOW

and where my tank is looking at, at the end of a waypoint chain is essential.

anyways ,now i just see one way BOTH sides have a good end with it. BFC could fix the "face" command for the end of a waypoint chain. when this command overrules this autobehaviour all is fixed and all would be happy.

i could use the auto rotate in situations where iam sure its ok and i dont have to use it when i simply chain face in the end for tracked and weeled vehicles.

i hope something can be worked out to please both sides in that matter. with working and overuleing "face" command it wouldnt be hard at all too it seems.

[Bradley Dick]

I tend to use my last command on the waypoint as my face command, knowing that wherever my last dot is my crew will be facing.

[Battlefront.com]

Bradley Dick,

Half the people are saying they want the units to act on their own. Half the people are saying they want full control, all the time.

I think it's never going to be exactly the way you want it, unless you start changing the code yourself. That's just the nature of the beast. There's been things I would have preferred or changed in every game I've ever played.

You got that right The problem is that the TacAI can't read people's minds, nor do we want to introduce interface to put in conditional SOPs, such as:

"Face this direction no matter what"

or

"Face this direction unless you think you see an armored threat"

or

"Face this direction unless you think you see two threats"

or

"Don't face any direction in particular, but don't move either"

The possibilities are endless and so would our changing code back and forth and back again. We've been through this with CMx1 and at some point it is just foolish to change anything. It will never be perfect, so it's a waste of time trying to make it so.

Pandur,

anyways ,now i just see one way BOTH sides have a good end with it. BFC could fix the "face" command for the end of a waypoint chain. when this command overrules this autobehaviour all is fixed and all would be happy.

Unless a threat came from an unexpected angle, your tank didn't rotate, and it was killed by a flank shot. Then all would not be happy

As with CMx1, user Commands are only overriden when it appears to be a life and death situation. We're not interested in changing that philosophy that has served us so well in the past.

Steve

[Pandur]

wow, nice

i thought this thread was dumped, now i see i even got an officiall replie.

Unless a threat came from an unexpected angle, your tank didn't rotate, and it was killed by a flank shot. Then all would not be happy

hehe, i agree with you here. but the BIG but is that I, and ONLY I, am the one to blame for the loss, if i have to blame the AI it is horrible becouse you, personaly, couldnt to a thing beside watching.

isnt that understandable!?

As with CMx1, user Commands are only overriden when it appears to be a life and death situation. We're not interested in changing that philosophy that has served us so well in the past.

sorry, but what user command!? i did the thread "face isnt working wich cover arc" so i cant issue a user command in that situation.

and to clarifie why iam so turned off by this. in v1.01 this system wasnt invented and after saying this...

The problem is that the TacAI can't read people's minds

...why dont you let the peoply carry out what they have in mind as it worked like a charm in 1.01!?

[Battlefront.com]

Pandur,

but the BIG but is that I, and ONLY I, am the one to blame for the los

98.56% of our customers wouldn't be as honest as you and would instead blame us

sorry, but what user command!? i did the thread "face isnt working wich cover arc" so i cant issue a user command in that situation.

Use Face before using Cover Arc.

why dont you let the peoply carry out what they have in mind as it worked like a charm in 1.01!?

I wish it were true There were a lot of small problems with the TacAI in CMx1, it's just that we got tired of patching things and you guys got used to the remaining problems. It took us about 5 years to get the TacAI into its final state, so it will probably take us some time (not that long though!) to get CMx2's TacAI to that level. Remember, it is an entirely different game engine, and that means we have to recode even the stuff worked well in CMx1.

Steve

[Pandur]

98.56% of our customers wouldn't be as honest as you and would instead blame us

strange customers you got

Use Face before using Cover Arc.

argl :eek:

sounds simple...i try it out

I wish it were true There were a lot of small problems with the TacAI in CMx1, it's just that we got tired of patching things and you guys got used to the remaining problems. It took us about 5 years to get the TacAI into its final state, so it will probably take us some time (not that long though!) to get CMx2's TacAI to that level. Remember, it is an entirely different game engine, and that means we have to recode even the stuff worked well in CMx1.

allright, i buy it. lets say, the auto rotate isnt "fine tuned" jet

today, in the 2nd chechen war scenario it was bugging me out again. the vehicles get really confused when they see enemys 180° around them, and while turning they cant shoot it seems wich left it turning and not shooting :mad:

(sorry for the : mad: but it was a terrible expirience, my squad wich just disembarked was slaughtered in the worst way and the vehicle, a BTR, just rotated while it saw the combatant stuffed technical FIFTY(50m) meters away.)

in the end, thanks for the help in this matter, iam happy that i spent my bucks directly at BFC, its like for a "good cause" so to speak.

thanks

[Pandur]

Use Face before using Cover Arc.

ok, i wanted to wait till 1.03 to try this.

it still "DOES NOT" work, the vehicles are rotateing towards the cover arc every time without me telling it, no matter if i give "face" command befor cover arc or not.

i feel like the game works against me...