thewood Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 On the gamesquad forums, someone posted a theory about the close proximity enemies not shooting at each other...the way CMSF handles civilians. Could the failure to spot an enemy be related to the way civilians are used to mask an enemy? Seemed a reasonable question related to this thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntarr Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Great question. I just assumed it effected your ability to spot IED's, VED's, and Spy's 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'll give it a test. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Sorry, didn't mean to make more work for you. Was just thinking with the keyboard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 No way, man, I'm excited. If it works ... well, I'll be happy. I've got work to do today (not programming) anyhow, may as well do something fun while I'm at it. Cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Fask-inating. Everybody else with screens -- what civilian density were those played at? Just wondering. I've only played scens that I've built, and I've never had population density turned off. This last test game, with it off, was a much more exciting and dynamic game than I'm used to. Things seemed to happen more quickly (including turning and firing). It seemed much more like "actual" combat to me. I made some silly mistakes (mostly just to see what would happen) and saw some odd pathing issues and some TacAI issues, but overall everything seemed smoother. I'm going to run the scen again with the density turned back up and see if I wasn't just going insane. I'd urge everybody who had issues in a particular scenario with pop density on / high to turn it off completely and try the scen again just to see. We'll see I guess. Cheers. Edit: To answer the question that spawned the test, spotting seemed much more realistic with civ density turned to off, yes. I could see it being related to the issues that we've seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Welp, I just did a quick test. I put two squads in a building, each on one end, facing the opposite direction from each other. Both were the same size, 5 man teams, and the same experience level, Vet. The civ density was set to Heavy. First go round US spotted Syrians first (about 5 seconds in) and wasted them all. Second time, Syrians spotted US first (about 5 seconds in) and wasted them all. The winner, in both situations, was the AI opponent. Whatever team I wasn't playing, saw and shot first. I don't know what that means. I didn't do any clicking or anything, but I am thinking it may not look good for the theory. I'll let you guys do more tests. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Hmmm. Fair enough. The civ density thing may explain some things, but it was a long shot that it would explain the M4-in-posterior and two-enemies-at-a-window screenshots. Thanks for testing that out. It turns out that I was only partly insane. There was a marked improvement with civ density off, but the bugs we've spotted are still there -- the guys just spot faster and react faster so it's harder to pick up. I'll try and get screens together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I checked civilian density from my two previous screen shots. In two-enemies-at-a-window the setting was Light. In the ATGM scenario it was Sparse. It would be very good if this setting was a major cause of spotting oddities. You could get it working like expected (assuming you want to show battle in an area where no civilians are left). Still I think the effect could be tweaked to produce results that make more sense to players. We don't know exactly how it works now, but I would think spotting probability would be higher when there's fighting going on. I'd think civilians want to get away from such areas and not for example go inside a building where fighting is taking place. So IMO it would be extremely strange if some unknown civilian would enter a building, notice several dead people on the floor and just walk towards some soldier who looks like he's looking for enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Thanks for checking. Hmmm. Well, if I picture "Heavy" civ density as having troops literally needing to *move* civilians to get a decent LOF, then abstractly I could see some of the behaviors that we've seen being evident. I wonder how civilian density is actually calculated? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 What if the civilians are really fat. Does that make a difference. (kidding) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelmia Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Oh yeah, I forgot about the civvie thing. That's getting turned off unless my opponent wants it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvan Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 As far as not shooting when close together goes, perhaps there is a sort of "too-close" parameter, where troops won't fire becuase they themselves are in the beaten zone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Hmm. Interesting theory. Definitely doesn't seem to work for friendlies -- plenty of times I've seen my SAW gunner firing prone between the legs of a standing rifleman. But for "self"... interesting. Maybe the risk of ricochet is too high? I wonder. Edit: you know, I actually had a bizarre dream last night that Steve had taken a week-long vacation and the whole forum went to hell. I am *deadly* serious. I think maybe I'm spending too much time here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'd hate to see what his inbox looked like after not checking it for a week... Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Seriously. I got fifty-odd work emails today (only counting those I was actually supposed to read and possibly respond to) and it's my day off. Of course, I also had to write code and spend a few hours fixing bugs on my day off, so I guess it wasn't a "day off" per se. I haven't had a real "day off" in... well, longer than I can remember. On an average weekday, I get 2-3x as many emails... and I'm still expected to turn in 8 hours (usually more) of development and hands-on management on top of responding to the damn things. When I imagine that Steve probably has it about ten times worse than I do... I feel very, very sorry for him. Seriously, we should probably be sending Steve, Charles and crew fruit baskets and flowers rather than hanging out here bothering them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 We'd have to mash up the apples and pears for Charles, I don't think he'd be comfortable with them bobbing around his head. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Originally posted by Mord: We'd have to mash up the apples and pears for Charles, I don't think he'd be comfortable with them bobbing around his head. Mord. EDITED: And they probably prefer the type of fruit basket Winecape sends them! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker765 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 As a software engineer for a major financial website my worst day ever had a little over 18000 emails in it. That was when I discovered that Outlook won't let you delete that many emails in one try. 18000 emails in a ten hour day. Doing the math isn't pretty. And the company refused to hire production support because they thought the developers could do that in addition to writing code. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNuckah Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Right. I'll wait for patch 1.05 before I start playing then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Dang, Lurker. I can't even touch that. I am very, very sorry for you as well. Back on topic (my bad again!), I would say that 1.03 is very playable, Mo. I had a ball the last game I played, even with the odd bugs. As for further issues, I think we've pretty much determined that some odd behaviours may be linked to the civilian density system. I will do some more thorough testing using a variety of densities. Hopefully this isn't one of those "we knew about it and we've fixed it already!" things. Anybody who has additional info (screenshots, anecdotes) please stand up. As for spotting and TacAI reaction in general, anybody got anything further over the weekend? I got some more screens that I'll put up over the next day or two. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Shameless bump. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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