mav1 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Its hard to get supression against troops in cm at the moment. Troops in the building have to shoot throgh the doors and windows which can be covered by suppression fire. But in cm they carry on blazing away even when being shoot at. No considering goes in to the way when you are being fired at your return fire is less accurate than not being shot at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 You're crazy. In my CMBB game last night I ordered an entire Russian rifle company (regular experience) across 100m of open ground and none of them made it - they all wound up back at their starting positions either in a panic or because they took too many casualties because a single MG42 opened up on them. Once I got rid of the MG, they moved across fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'Rogers Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Got to say mav you have had some interesting suggestions but at times you seem to playing a different game then the rest of us. When I first started out suppression was very difficult. After a lot of experience it became much easier to gauge how much fire would take to suppress guys. Suppressing guys is fairly easy with tactical superiority. It is harder to suppress guys in buildings but that is the way it likely should be. It is by no means impossible (or even overly difficult). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav1 Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 Originally posted by fytinghellfish: You're crazy. In my CMBB game last night I ordered an entire Russian rifle company (regular experience) across 100m of open ground and none of them made it - they all wound up back at their starting positions either in a panic or because they took too many casualties because a single MG42 opened up on them. Once I got rid of the MG, they moved across fine. Did you find it difficult to supress the machinegun? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav1 Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 Originally posted by C'Rogers: [QB] Got to say mav you have had some interesting suggestions but at times you seem to playing a different game then the rest of us. Yes Iam starting to get that impression too. I honstly say that the things I have posted is through the experience I have got from the time I have played the game. I have found it nearly impossible in supressing Infantry in trenches and buildings even with numerical advantage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Originally posted by mav1: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fytinghellfish: You're crazy. In my CMBB game last night I ordered an entire Russian rifle company (regular experience) across 100m of open ground and none of them made it - they all wound up back at their starting positions either in a panic or because they took too many casualties because a single MG42 opened up on them. Once I got rid of the MG, they moved across fine. Did you find it difficult to supress the machinegun? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 mav1 - suppressing any element in CM is relatively easy if you used the appropriate units/weapons and the appropriate level of firepower. In the real world the figure 3-1 to 6-1 of fire-support elements to each target will fully suppress any unit and allow you to advance. It has work this way for a long time (See Rommel's book "Infantry Attacks" from WW1). This 3-1 to 6-1 ratio is well known amongst infantry commanders, and is key to modern MOUT/OIBUAs. Infantry hvy weapon make this task even easier - drop some light mortars and place a few area fires over any MG team and they'll take cover or be pinned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav1 Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 Originally posted by fytinghellfish: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mav1: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fytinghellfish: You're crazy. In my CMBB game last night I ordered an entire Russian rifle company (regular experience) across 100m of open ground and none of them made it - they all wound up back at their starting positions either in a panic or because they took too many casualties because a single MG42 opened up on them. Once I got rid of the MG, they moved across fine. Did you find it difficult to supress the machinegun? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Because that single machinegun suppressed an entire infantry company before I suppressed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 suppression in CM is weak, while there are far too many casulties. perhaps it's just to make the game more exciting, but partly it's due to the limitations set by the game engine. i think the greatest weakness of the engine (edit: regarding suppression) is that machineguns can only lay point fire, rendering defensive HMG nets pretty pointless. hellfish, i think what you experienced is an ambush, not so much suppression. for a display of suppressive effects setup a HMG at a treeline at 500 meters and Advance towards it with a platoon of infantry. edit: though you get better results as the number of platoons and HMGs rises, but of course then the platoons ought to get support weapons of their own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I'm 95% sure that from CMBB MGs could suppress multiple units. Only in CMBO were they restricted to affecting point targets. Yes, I was ambushed, but I was also suppressed by that MG fire. Some of my units wouldn't return fire because they were either panicked or pinned down - that is what suppression is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Originally posted by fytinghellfish: I'm 95% sure that from CMBB MGs could suppress multiple units. Only in CMBO were they restricted to affecting point targets.MGs only lay point fire though the point has an effective radius of 25 meters or so. there is no grazing fire and thus realistic defensive HMG tacticts (e.g. placement at flanks to form interlocking fields of grazing fire in front of the MLR) do not make sense. Yes, I was ambushed, but I was also suppressed by that MG fire. Some of my units wouldn't return fire because they were either panicked or pinned down - that is what suppression is. suppressive HMG fire is a sustained long term (in CM scale) area denial effect. what you experienced was very sudden and short term and only caused by the surprise. you do have a point, but i think the point only applies to ambush situations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Suppression is, overall, fine in CM as far as we are concerned. It should be easier to acheive in some circumstances than it is, but this is a limitation we ran into with extreme situations. The problem is we would get morale issues instead of just suppression because the two are basically one in the same. This is not the case with CMx2 for that very reason. MGs in CMBO were only point weapons. This was fixed, as best we could, with CMBB. The proof? Check the CM forums and see how many people hate the changes we made in CMBB over CMBO The greater CPU cycles and RAM at our disposal this time around have allowed us to simulate small arms fire even more accurately, which means MGs in CMx2 will be a ton more effective than with CMBO and (in some cases) significantly more effective than CMBB/AK. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Huh. Learn somefink new every day. I've been playing CM since the beta demo (in 99?) and I still get suprised by it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 CMx1 line games are extremely good games, definately the best there are of the subject. they are much better than could realistically be expected from a commercial product. it's just that there's always room for improvement great to hear that suppression is getting better in CMx2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Tripod mounted gimpys (M240)...hmmm nice 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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