MarkEzra Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Originally posted by Martyr: Is it your sense that we should avoid the campaign (until fixed) but may play battles with confidence that things are working as intended? The scen seem fine and I would play with confidence.( Caveat: Please keep in mind that player made scen can vary in quality.) Late user made campaigns are most likely just fine. Apparently an early Campaign is the problem. I cannot speak with much authority on Campaigns as I don't build them and rarely play them. Others can speak with more clarity to that aspect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Steve refers to AI setup zone problem above. It'd seem to me that it can be a problem with any scenario, not just the Campaign. In any case, if the latter scenarios in the campaign play fine, maybe I'll just finish the silly thing. Definitely would like to move on to something a bit more challenging. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 From what I've seen campaign battle no.1 is affected, but not disastrously so IMHO. In it the AI can still put up a fight. Indeed, the surprise value means it's just as good if not better then before. Battle two is seriously, seriously crippled though, with many Syrian troops in the open, bunkers completely out of place, etc. But the other scenarios in the campaign seemed fine to me. I didn't get all the way to the end but you should be able to get pretty far without seeing it again, if ever, once you get past the 2nd battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Originally posted by Barleyman: Steve refers to AI setup zone problem above. It'd seem to me that it can be a problem with any scenario, not just the Campaign. In any case, if the latter scenarios in the campaign play fine, maybe I'll just finish the silly thing. Definitely would like to move on to something a bit more challenging. While it may "seem" that way, it isn't. Notice that Campaigns are NOT btt files...That is for scen only. The bug is found only in a campaign and an old one at that. PLEASE stop lumping Scen and Campaigns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkins Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I was getting excited about 1.06 and now this. But it seems to be an issue with a limited number of Campaigns and not any Scenario. Is this correct? I was about to email friends who went back to earlier CM BO-AK. What Campaigns do we avoid until the hotfix is out? Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkins Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I forgot to say I tested my one High Value Target scenario and it plays well if not better in 1.06. Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzrtFox Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: The fix is a hack to preserve the bug for scenarios (which includes campaign battles) created prior to v1.06. For anything created from there on the bug fix will kick in as intended. [/QB]I am not trying to second-guess you guys, but I'm curious... wouldn't a better fix be to just fix the setup zones in the campaign files themselves? There's probably some users around here with the knowledge and will to do it, and it seems releasing an updated campaign file would be much easier/faster than releasing another .exe update. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzrtFox Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Ahh, I didn't read the whole thread well enough to see that campaigns are pre-compiled and can't be edited by the average user here, but still, it would seem BFC could update it and release it way faster than having to re-implement a bug for only certain campaigns... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 While everything plays better with 1.06 I think there is a new bug introduced with 1.06, namely that the AI will no longer set up units in buildings (and perhaps trenches but I haven't tried this yet) except when they are whole-tile buildings and their set up area is exclusively in-building. I posted an example with screenshots from the editor in another thread about this problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Originally posted by MarkEzra: WRT tests done on setup and houses, can I start lumping them now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlR Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 So there is a problem with the AI setup in the first 2 campaign scenarios at least and also with any scenario where AI forces should be placed in buildings that do not occupy a single tile? Is this the same 'bug'? Can BFC correct it and what are their plans to do so? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Originally posted by carlR: So there is a problem with the AI setup in the first 2 campaign scenarios at least and also with any scenario where AI forces should be placed in buildings that do not occupy a single tile? Is this the same 'bug'? Can BFC correct it and what are their plans to do so? Thanks Campaign is a Bug involving 2 early CM:SF versions Campaigns. NOT found in later Campaigns. Scen do NOT have this bug. Scen play and set up as designed. That I would like to see the editor draw building only setups no matter what location or angle is a request for MODIFICATION of the editor NOT a BUG. And is completely irrelevant to the Campaign bug question. A designer can EASILY draw buildings to include AI set ups for building only if desired. But it does require setting the building tiles in a manner that matches the 8x8 grid. Just like CMx2 matched 20x20 grid, by the way. So NOT a bug but to my mind an inconvenience. I believe BFC is aware of the Campaign bug. And I seem to recall that BFC has said they will review the editor at some point but not urgently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Parsing it as to not call it a bug is all well and good, but I hope the urgency puts on the level as a bug. Making the editor as complete and easy to use as possible is probably needed to get CMSF on track with the masses. Its the little things about the editor that, to me, are holding it back. It is incredibly powerful, but somewhat cut off at the knees due to little things like the building issue, AI arty, unit selection, etc. May be small in isolation, but compiled, can lead to a little aggravation in developing scenarios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I finally finshed the campaign. Just decided to get it over with, silly deployment aside. Anyhow I played up to mission 10 or so with 1.04 so no big deal. Sans general super-easy setup it was ok fun. "What do you mean I get REINFORCEMENTS? After completely overrunning opposition?" Except for the last 2 Hims scenarios which sucked bollocks performance wise. I do not know, I have nagging suspicion it's some stupid incompatibility with Athlon dual-core rather than running out of CPU-juice as such. After all, task manager shows <50% CPU loads while the action is exciting 2fps slide show. Oh and having bad guys teleport into the same house you have squad already occupying is somehow very .. DOOM of you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Let's start with a quote from Martyr's earlier post... -There does seem to be a problem. In some (possibly all) campaign missions, the red units are mis-placed from where they used to be. For instance, units that were once in trenches are now located on plain ground away from the trenches. Units that were once in buildings are now located behind or away from those buildings.- Now I haven't tested trenches or pillboxes and I don't really have the time to do that thoroughly. I know that buildings and trenches were both modified in 1.06 to provide better cover. Then I can't get the AI to set up in buildings except in exceptional circumstances. If this isn't a new bug how come nobody's ever picked this one up before. I don't play much MOUT but I know that the rest of you DO so surely somebody would have noticed this before. I know I've seen the AI set up in buildings before even when the buildings were partial tiles and the set up zone was quite large containing open ground and other buildings. I was playtesting that scenario of mine before 1.06 and the AI set up in buildings occassionally. Now it NEVER does unless forced to, ie no other option available to it. In my test, it appears that the AI actually AVOIDS buildings. If it is a bug that WAS present before that scenario designers can no longer avoid because of a hack that Charles put in, how can I avoid this mistake so that I can deploy infantry in buildings again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I think people would have reported seeing this earlier... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 When a setup zone is set exclusively for Buildings and those building contain the zone without "bleeding" around them you get this result: All inf units are located in buildings. But When the AI is given a choice of buildings and surrounding terrain Paper Tigers Pic is the result. It seems about 2/3rds stay outside in a generally random way. The question has risen is this new or was this activity always there but gone unnoticed. I don't know and I don't think anyone can actually be certain. My only observation is: Multiple plans were not used a great deal in the first scens. As designers grew more competent multiple plans exploded. But whatever the actual history is doesn't much matter to me. Designers need a mechanism to insure that when they want troops in specific buildings they can do so without concern for setup and pathing placement issues (like bleeding buildings). If in plan 3 group 2 is required to be placed in building a simple pathing directive should allow that, OR drawing the pathing should always allow a single building to be painted without affecting the surrounding terrain. Either way will work. Whichever is easiest to code without creating a bug somewhere else always gets my vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Yup, that's what I figured too. If the set up zone is EXCLUSIVELY within a building then the AI units in that group have absolutely no choice but to set up in there. But, just now, when they have a choice, even a very small choice like in my above picture, they refuse to deploy in the buildings. I've repeated that experiment a few times and they NEVER once set up one unit in the buildings even with different settings 'mixed' 'upper floors' etc. Now, I really haven't observed this behaviour before. But most of the scenarios I've designed so far are open terrain or it's the human player who's the defender in the MOUT situation. However, pre-1.03, one of my very early experiments had a couple of Stryker platoons attacking a small enemy held village and the AI definitely set up in the buildings and out of them. I was a complete newbie to the editor then and so I was using large, mixed terrain set up areas and the AI did a good job of mixing things up a bit and keeping it unpredictable for me. Of course, it could be some problem that's unique to my system since so few people are actually seeing this happen, or at least noticing it. By the way, I repeated my experiment this morning with some trenches and the AI always set up in the trenches so the problem seems to be limited to houses only. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 This bug is still there. Is it going to be fixed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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