deteriorating terrain

[J Ruddy]

I recall there was a post a while back about deforming terrain, but I don't remember whether deteriorating terrain was discussed or not.

For example, you have a creek which a company of men decide to cross. If the banks by the creek are soft the first few men might have a much easier time than the last few men who will possibly have a lot of mud and loose ground to deal with. The flip side is snow. If you have a platoon in column formation moving through deep snow, anyone following up behind them will likely have an easier time as the snow is already trampled down.

To stay with the snow topic - will all roads be considered clear of snow, or will there be various conditions for roads and paths.

Is this sort of dynamic terrain modelling within the scope of CMX2?

[Jussi Köhler]

That would mean some kind of "terrain-memory" where every square inch of terrain has a variable that changes when someone passes over it. Impossible.

How many men (with longcoats) equal a PZIII in deep snow reqarding the tracks they make? IS there any hard evidence?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Jussi Köhler:

That would mean some kind of "terrain-memory" where every square inch of terrain has a variable that changes when someone passes over it. Impossible.

How many men (with longcoats) equal a PZIII in deep snow reqarding the tracks they make? IS there any hard evidence?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Square inch? They are using 2m terrain tiles, so surely it could be done on that basis as an acceptable compromise, all other factors being equal.

[juan_gigante]

But still, to have the game remember all that would be tough.

[J Ruddy]

If there's one thing us Canucks know it's winter warfare. I remember when I was a kid, there were always joint manouevers going on in my area. One year whomever was in charge decided the US should do a winter airborne assault. Unfortunately it was -30C at ground level and God knows how cold at their jump altitude. That was the year that the US Army learned what happens to jumpers' "leather gloved" fingers and "wrong socks for the weather" toes in -30C weather. A friend of mine ended up having a platoon bivvied in his heated barn - I think only 2 didn't have frostbite and a few had to be evacuated.

But I digress - I think if they can have multiple states for building hexes, they may be able to have multiple states for road and soft ground hexes. But then I am still thinking in the abstract cmx1 style. I haven't seen CMx2 yet, so this idea could be as doable as taking Moscow before Christmas.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by juan_gigante:

But still, to have the game remember all that would be tough.

They do it now with shellholes and craters, three stages of damage for buildings, flame effects in all terrain, knocked out vehicles (including exact placement and facing), smoke rounds, dust from collapsed buildings, minefields, etc....

It WILL happen someday, again, in Steve's words, maybe "not in the first release."

[J Ruddy]

:Originally posted by juan_gigante:

But still, to have the game remember all that would be tough.

You'd probably think the same about a python eating an alligator.

After Dinner Mint?

[imported_no_one]

Originally posted by J Ruddy:

I remember when I was a kid, there were always joint manouevers going on in my area.

Dang you lucky Canucks and your lax marijuana laws

[MikeyD]

I'm trying to remember - did Moon ever say if there's be tank tracks on the ground/snow after a tank has moved through a field? I *think* that happens in T72 (not on a PC so I can't touch the game). It'd be fun to see the complex patterns after a company of tanks has been maneuvering for position during a game. I can imagine spotting issues galore, though. People complaining because some small bug causes trackways to appear before the tanks actually been spotted - that sorta stuff. If they don't get in I bet spotting issues will be the culprit - same for other 'degraded terrain' too.

[Dillweed]

Originally posted by J Ruddy:

If there's one thing us Canucks know it's winter warfare. I remember when I was a kid, there were always joint manouevers going on in my area. One year whomever was in charge decided the US should do a winter airborne assault. Unfortunately it was -30C at ground level and God knows how cold at their jump altitude. That was the year that the US Army learned what happens to jumpers' "leather gloved" fingers and "wrong socks for the weather" toes in -30C weather. A friend of mine ended up having a platoon bivvied in his heated barn - I think only 2 didn't have frostbite and a few had to be evacuated.

But I digress - I think if they can have multiple states for building hexes, they may be able to have multiple states for road and soft ground hexes. But then I am still thinking in the abstract cmx1 style. I haven't seen CMx2 yet, so this idea could be as doable as taking Moscow before Christmas.

Joint manouevers aside, thats hardly the fist time US airborne troops have learned why doing something is a really bad idea the hard way.

[MikeyD]

Altered terrain would have to be treated like opposing forces. That is to say only one side would be able to see the terrain change if it was outside the other side's LOS. Otherwise, a broken fence or collapsed stream bank on the far end of the board would give a unit's position away. I suppose 'relative spotting' also would dictate that some units would know about the altered terrain while others wouldn't - a gap in a road block for instance. I can imagine the required effort being expended to make it happen in selected major instances (creation of dug-in tank emplacements for instance) but it'd take a lot of fine-scale memory management to do it for lesser items like collapsed stream banks or broken fences.