Darkmath Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I wonder if this weapon will be included, as a non official TOE weapon : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G3 This 7.62*55mm assault rifle seems to still be used in some third world countries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hezbollah makes good use of these It is the finest battle rifle I have ever had the pleasure of firing. Extremly powerful round, superb accuracy and very durable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderbamsen Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 And very reliable too. I fired it for a whole week of live-fire training in damp and wet European autumn conditions without cleaning the internals (I only wiped off the exterior). The surprising thing isn't that it never misfired, but that it managed to pass inspection... The ergonoics suck, though. luderbamsen PS: Kids, don't try this at home. Clean your weapons regularly. If the gun doesn't kill you, your NCO surely will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Originally posted by luderbamsen: PS: Kids, don't try this at home. Clean your weapons regularly. If the gun doesn't kill you, your NCO surely will. If you were in my platoon I would do the killing myself and let the NCO pick up the pieces. I was extremely anal about equipment maintenance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted October 29, 2006 Author Share Posted October 29, 2006 The original question was: Will the G3 be included in CMSF as an unofficial weapon on the syrian side? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machina Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 This 7.62*55mm assault rifle seems to still be used in some third world countries Hey, I take offense to that! There is at least one industrialized country left that uses it. And I happen to be a citizen of that country. So there. Oh, and the correct description is 7,62x51. The ergonoics suck, though. The safety selector is a little too far away for people with short thumbs (fairly easily remedied), but other than that, I'd say it's pretty good. I would have liked an M16-style mag release button though. About reliability: I've fired several thousands of rounds with different G3s, and had maybe five stoppages. They were all caused by a worn out firing pin in one particular weapon I had. And these guns had seen 30+ years of army service before I got them. The ammo is heavy, though. To get to the original question: I have no idea, but I hope so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Originally posted by Darkmath: The original question was: Will the G3 be included in CMSF as an unofficial weapon on the syrian side? Steve said no. AK-47/AK-74 for all Syrians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Correct, no "unofficial" weapons for the Syrian military. We may give the Terrorists access to G3s at some point, but it's not currently planned for the initial release. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Machina, There is at least one industrialized country left that uses it.Denmark is industrialized? I thought all you guys did was make and cartoons of Muhammed Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 Isn't the Norway Army also using their own modified version of G3? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderbamsen Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Most malfunctions I saw seemed to be related to dented magazines. I swapped my aluminium mags for steel ones (both were in use). Alu mags were very popular since they were lighter and didn't rust. However, they did dent fairly easy. Also, not all parts were aluminium and did rust (but wasn't always noticed because they looked fine on the outside). The two most spectacular malfunctions I saw included a spent casing rotating 180 degrees inside the reciever, before being rammed base first into the chamber, and the recoil spring guide rod braking off at the base, leaving the recoil spring a tangled mess at the back of the reciever. Originally posted by Battlefront.com:Denmark is industrialized? I thought all you guys did was make and cartoons of Muhammed Steve [/QB]Dissin' DK eh? I could respond in kind, but you probably wouldn't survive it. Besides, I reserve the right to exercise my freedom of speech to draw any sort of picture of the Prophet Muhammed. I choose not to do so because it would be jolly impolite. Respectfully luderbamsen Oooo, got a bit political there eh? Sorry, won't happen again. On the other hand, Steve bloody well started so there... [ October 30, 2006, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: luderbamsen ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machina Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Denmark is industrialized? I thought all you guys did was make and cartoons of Muhammed Steve Well, I wouldn't know about the Danes, but we are. At least we're petroleumized. That should be close enough. Isn't the Norway Army also using their own modified version of G3? Yup, we are. You can read all about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AG3 The information is a little dated, though. Last thing I heard, the army will probably keep the AG3 in an upgraded version (with optics and rails), while the home guard will switch to 5,56. Seems to me the other way around would be more logical, but there you have it. Oh, and from another thread: Sergei, </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> So Stev-o, how's it going on with modelling the Finnish Defence Forces? I checked the Battlefront.com PO Box today and have yet to find any Finnish m/05 camouflage uniforms in it. I thought I made myself clear... I only make decisions based on bribes. No bribes, no modeling. Very simple equation. Well, except that I am picky about what the bribe is Steve </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machina Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 So, Luderbamsen: Have you guys swapped your G3s for C7s yet, or is it still just for international operations? And if you're still in the loop: What's your take on the C7? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 The G3 is also used by the Swedish Home Guard (slightly modified, locally known as the AK4) with a red dot sight and plastic buttstock/handle to cut down on weight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderbamsen Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by Machina: So, Luderbamsen: Have you guys swapped your G3s for C7s yet, or is it still just for international operations? And if you're still in the loop: What's your take on the C7? Been out of the loop for 15 years now. AFAIK, G3's are only found among support units (artillery, logistics e.c.t.) and will be fully replaced soon. The C7's are, AFAIK, well liked. I'm a bit worried about them being issued to short-term conscripts (whereas the G3 was wonderfully simple) though. I'm more suspicious about the C7A1 LMG being issued instead of a true 5.56mm LMG (like, say, the Minimi). Seem like a very poor (but probably more affordable) choice to me. Respectfully luderbamsen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 Btw, I don't understand why all armies are getting rid of this weapon ; its ammunition keeps at least an advantage in urban environnement in comparison with 5,56mm bullets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderbamsen Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by Darkmath: Btw, I don't understand why all armies are getting rid of this weapon ; its ammunition keeps at least an advantage in urban environnement in comparison with 5,56mm bullets. Because it's heavy and so is the ammo, lighter weapon and lighter ammo allows for more ammo to be carried for the same weight. For comparison, a G3 with 100 rounds weights roughly the same as an M16 with 240 rounds. In distinctly remember the G3 being a jolly unwieldy thing during room clearing operations. Respectfully luderbamsen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machina Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I have to agree with Luderbamsen. There is a huge discussion on this where I come from. I guess it all boils down to this: 7,62 ammo is twice as heavy, does about 25 percent more damage to a human body and penetrates heavier cover. Penetration can be both a good and a bad thing of course. Soldiers today often carry around 300 rounds per man. That's 5 kgs of 5,56 or 12 kgs of 7,62 ammo. Then you add in the rest of your equipment. Some random sources: On ammo usage (loong thread of first hand accounts and AARs): http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,51144.0/all.html On small arms penetration vs. buildings: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2792944434589996156&q=mout&hl=en On terminal ballistics: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2005smallarms/wednesday/arvidsson.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronic Max Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 7,62 ammo [snip]does about 25 percent more damage to a human bodyWhat exactly does that mean? Edited to fix zee quote [ October 31, 2006, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Moronic Max ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by Moronic Max: I think it means the exit wound is 25% bigger. If you shoot someone with a 7.62mm bullet just the force of the bullet is going to knock them over. Not to mention the orange sized exit wound as the round blows out the back of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machina Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 7,62 ammo [snip]does about 25 percent more damage to a human body What exactly does that mean? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 No, no, no... By saying 7.62 has 25% more effect it means 4 wounds from 7.62 has the same effect as 5 wounds from 5.56. Now, do we have any volunteers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machina Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Hehe, I think I'll pass.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Well, I recently saw a vid of what happens as a .50 cal sniper round hits Taliban fighters hundreds of meters away. Let's just say that there is no exit wound, just an exit. So how do you measure the relative effectiveness against 5.56 and 7.62 when there is pretty much no body left to examine? An interesting question, for sure, but not one I would want to go into the field to answer. A tad bit too messy for my tastes. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 luderbamsen, Dissin' DK eh?Yeah, but not very well. I accidentally edited out the part where I thought you guys only manufactured CHEESE and naughty cartoons. Of course one of your cheeses can't be called Feta any more, but then again maybe the Greeks will give you a sublicense to the name I could respond in kind, but you probably wouldn't survive it. ? Just remember that I am 1/4 Danish, so go easy on that bit. You should have a go at the Italian bit first in any case since I'm sure that's the part that came up with the dis. Machina, t least we're petroleumized. For a little while longer, that's true. Then you'll be just like Sweden, but with more useless coastal property. For my next trick I will tell a joke about the Finnish reindeer herder that accidentally went to Stockholm and another one about a Swedish porn actress. Hey, if I'm going to piss off the Scandinavians of this Forum I might as well do a thorough job, right? What kind of uniform would it take to get the Norwegians in? M75, M98, M2000, M04; Just name it, and I can probably get it for you.Just got myself a M04 desert set a few weeks ago, which is an interesting design for sure. Already have a M98 set and a nice Airforce uniform in the old "puzzle" shapes. Note that filling the holes probably won't get the Norwegians in since these things aren't that tough to get, especially compared to Finnish m/05. But who knows... I am a softy for bribes. Just ask WineCape... he's the worst tester we've ever had, but man oh MAN are his wines good Steve [ November 01, 2006, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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