If you like the game, do you avoid MOUT?

[DaveDash]

Bah the houses are crappy anyway, no furnature, hardly any interior walls, the wallpaper sucks. Blow them up and rebuild better ones later.

[the Fighting Seabee]

MOUT is a reality man, can't go without it.

lol a little redecorating?

[Paper Tiger]

Philip:

"That said, how do you avoid MOUT in CM:SF? Many of the scenarios in the game involve some form of building-to-building fighting.

Any enlightenment would be much appreciated. Cheers."

That's easy. I design all my own scenarios and as yet, I haven't done a city one. I spend all my SF time in the scenario editor or playtesting my creations and rarely play any of the scenarios.

I don't care much for MOUT operations but I fully accept that this is the reality of combat in the 21st century. When I can blast my way through house walls and move from house to house without leaving cover, I'll start playing MOUT again. Also, it's the vehicles pathfinding in cities/dense villages that frustrates me the most. One example from a scenario I was designing follows:

Played as Red you have a small force of insurgents and technicals to defend a village to the last man. I ordered one technical to hunt about 10-15 yards ahead up the road to a junction. It really was just short of the junction. It about-turned, drove back down the road away from the junction and turned off to drive out of the village and back in. Of course, it didn't complete this little excursion. Hmm. It was only supposed to be peeping round the corner to see if there were any US forces in the road.

I don't save games while I'm playing them unless I can't finish them in one sitting and I REALLY must finish it. So reloading is not an option when the AI pathfinding really screws up.

And when I do design MOUT operations, I use Stryker MOUT infantry. They break into three groups, not two which is much better, and I give them very short movement commands with as much overwatch as I can manage. But I can't mount a full platoon into their Strykers which means that a MG team has to run to catch up... hopefully, this'll get sorted quickly.

Don't misunderstand me, I LOVE this game and play it every day. Out of the city, it's awesome! Actually, my favourite CMBB scenario was a Stalingrad factory fight that I designed for myself. I've played that one probably 100+ times... it was just SO difficult, but not impossible, for the Germans to capture the factory and hold it against a determined Russian counterattack. I've been thinking of a way to do it for CMSF but will wait to see what 1.05 brings in the way of fixes first.

[Paper Tiger]

Cpl Steiner:

"I'm beginning to wonder that Blue on Blue Rural might be the true sweet spot. You could do a scenario like that and call it a military exercise."

Blue on Blue is LETHAL, man! When you spot something it's DEAD! I have no problem with the military exercises idea. I'm sure that's how the army trains but I rarely QB that way because it's very short and bloody. Syrian military exercises are better fun to play though.

[Meach]

Mishga made me a tiny little MOUT op. A handful of US scouts are to clear out a village street.

In ambush are some Syrian Infantry who are somewhat irked at the presence of the capatalist pig-dogs marching down there street.

For such a tiny little scenario it was a lot of fun. MOUT all the way and I never noticed any glaring craziness from either side.

US troops hunted from the start point, reached the first objective. Spotted some Syrians and engaged at medium range. All this from cover of small walls and trees. Once the firefight subsided the troops moved off again, wary of further attack. The LT pinpointed one particular house where enemy forces were still in situ so an assault was ordered. One squad of scouts were on overwatch from the rear of the building and the LT from the front. The squad hunted towards the door till it came under fire...the guys immediatly hit the dirt and returned fire.

Again the firefight lasted a few minutes and ended with Syrian casualties. Still not 100% sure the building was empty the squad assaulted in thru the front door after one minute of rapid shooting from all sources.

Left alive was 2 hardcore fanatical officers who put up a stiff defence as US troops assaulted in. The end result 2 wounded US against 7 KIA and 5 WIA Syrians.

Ok, a long post to explain that MOUT worked beautifully for me and no odd behaviour. This is 1.04. I have seen AI MOUT go horribly wrong but for once I got lucky.

[Thomm]

Originally posted by Meach:

Mishga made me a tiny little MOUT op.

The stock scenario "Al Huqf" is the mandatory MOUT test battle to be played first with each patch.

My present idea is to simulate an urban battle where the US gets M1s, but cannot use them because of the narrow streets and LOS blocking buildings.

Kind of a practical CM:SF joke.

Btw, what can I use to make a roadblock? Debris doo-dads (does not seem to work) or do I have to resort to abandoned vehicles?

Best regards,

Thomm

[Fizou]

Originally posted by Phillip Culliton:

Fizou, sweet, thanks. Is it infantry-heavy MOUT? Who are you playing against? Could you describe how you play and with what?

Phillip Culliton,

I have played the campaign and all the scenarios that come with the game. Many scenarios are infantry-heavy MOUT as Im sure you know.

I play only against the AI and haven't played a live opponent yet.

I play real time only and I believe that gives a better experience. If a units moves in a way I don't like I can end the move instantly.

Personally I really liked the WEGO style of the older CM games but when I got CM:SF i decided as I fired up the game for the first time to try real time. After this I never tried WEGO as I really enjoyed real time. The drawback of real time for me is that I tend to focus on a particular area of the battlefield with a small amount of units until it is secured. Then I move on with my next stryker plt and tackle a new area.

Regarding bugs in the game I don't see that many that I cant correct myself (pathing and not that often). Again probably a real time benefit. I understand the frustration if one of my vehicles moves down a road I didn't tell it to and it gets destroyed by the enemy.

Cant wait for 1.05

[Guest]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. I actually reinstalled CMSF last night and played a huge MOUT scenario as a test. There were problems -- I didn't really have much fun, although I hadn't really set up the scen for "fun" per se.

I'm in the middle of some weird office stuff so I'll have a longer post later, just wanted to acknowledge all the cool info.

Cheers.

[MikeyD]

V1.05 will see a drastic decrease in 'wierd' MOUT behavior. Its very playable now - as long as you keep in mind it was never meant to be a FPS arcade game. I've got three intense MOUT scenarios all designed, ready to drop onto cmmods.com once the patch is released.

[thelmia]

Blowing up buildings never gets old. Add JDAMs until your symptoms improve.