thewood Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 This is probably too much of a generalization, but could the canned scenarios included with the game be causing some of the bugs/issues we are seeing. I see issues like TOWs not firing, blue on blue incidents, LOS/LOF inconsistencies, floating units, etc. all the time in canned scenarios. When I try to replicate them on maps from the QBG group, I don't see them as much, or sometimes at all. Could it have something to do with all the chamges made to the game engine and canned scenarios not being updated or just plain broken by the updating process? Its just a thought that has been in the back of my mind and saw a couple of threads talking about stuff happening in specific scenarios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 One of the included QB maps (city map) has a setup problem: part of the blue setup zone is in tiles where there is no exit. If a tank or vehicle is initially positioned in such tile, it cannot move. I don't think AI is smart enough to shoot a hole to those large walls. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 That is a scenario design issue. Not really what I'm talking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 So you do not mean that some specific things included in those scenarios is the problem? Because what kind of map you have etc. does make a big difference in some of the problems people have had so far like path finding. Do you mean that those scenarios were made using an older version of the game? If so, have you tried loading some of those problem scenarios to Scenario Editor, saving them to another name and playing that scenario? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 I don't think you understand my question. I'm asking if during the development and testing process something broke those scenarios. I am saying something may be inherently wrong with them that a save in a newer version won't help. I don't see a lot of these issues in newer maps used to create scenarios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 thewood, I see where you're going and it certainly seems plausible. I recall Steve mentioning fixing bugs during development where they'd remove a building or similar, but path-finding still "saw" it. I'm too lazy to go find the actual quotes tho 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 This same sort of thing happened during the development of Cmx1. The biggest effects were seen in scenario balance -- as the game engine was updated and patched, sometimes certain fixes would make specific units more or less capable. As a result, some scenarios, originally designed to be more or less even fights, became unbalanced. As far as things genuinely becoming broken, I don't remember anything like that, but it's certainly possible. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkins Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 He is not talking about balance. The scenarios just provide data to the engine. The question is: If as the engine was changed did the boxed scenarios keep up pace with the changes up to the release date? Object orientated programming would seem to separate data from the engine but maybe not. Good question for BFC ... Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Originally posted by thewood: I'm asking if during the development and testing process something broke those scenarios. I am saying something may be inherently wrong with them that a save in a newer version won't help. So that those scenarios would contain some garbage data because of some bug in Scenario Editor - like what Cameroon wrote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Someone could take a canned map from a scenario that is having a lot of issues and see if duplicating it from scratch helps. I'll try it, but I am nowhere near a detailed map maker. Maybe shooting in the dark anyway, but it seems we see a lot of problems on a limited number of maps. It may be that people are just playing those scenarios a lot or certain maps showcase the issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geozero Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 It sounds plausible that if you update the engine and not the canned scenarios (or any older engine built scenarios) that you will have issues. I've beta tested for other game companies and this happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Originally posted by geozero: *** Every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief... Great Tag...Who said that? On topic...I am superstitious. I don't even like to re-write my own QBG maps from attack to Meet. All the techs in the world can't convince me NOT to start with fresh, correctly defined maps. This editor is fantastic and what it can do with the AI is a dream. But it can produce a nightmare scen for those who don't learn to use it properly. The How or why of the original game maps I'm not certain of...mostly I think the problems will be found and fixed in the AI plans and orders. I've saved all of mine and do plan to look at them...Hate to see good designs go to waste. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 U2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Originally posted by MarkEzra: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by geozero: *** Every artist is a cannibal every poet is a thief... Great Tag...Who said that? On topic...I am superstitious. I don't even like to re-write my own QBG maps from attack to Meet. All the techs in the world can't convince me NOT to start with fresh, correctly defined maps. This editor is fantastic and what it can do with the AI is a dream. But it can produce a nightmare scen for those who don't learn to use it properly. The How or why of the original game maps I'm not certain of...mostly I think the problems will be found and fixed in the AI plans and orders. I've saved all of mine and do plan to look at them...Hate to see good designs go to waste. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 DirtW: Thanks...showing my age. TheWood: In these days of Global Warming and the need to conserve Energy may I suggest: Scenario Design in the Nude...every little bit helps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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