Question Regarding Helicopter Operations

[TylerF]

Hello!

I've been around these forums for awhile, and well, I mostly lurk.

Ok, here's my question.

Is it a possibility for para operations out of helicopters? I can't find any information on this subject and I'm curious, is it even a viable option?

I see large choppers like the Chinook and I've wondered that their large cargo doors allowed the ability for airborne infantry to jump out the back. I don't see why not, helicopters should be a stable platform for this kind of operations.

Just thought I'd start some discussion on these forums.

[the Fighting Seabee]

Yes.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/MIL_HALO_Jump_lg.jpg

[JonS]

I suspect the down-draft might be a bit of an issue with fixed line jumps ...

I'm trying to imagine a situation where using helicopters as jump platforms confers any particular advantage (compared to jumping out of fixed wing OR just having the helo land and walking off) and I'm coming up blank. :confused:

[the Fighting Seabee]

I guess the biggest advantage would be that they could launch their mission from anywhere, rather than having to launch from an airfield.

The second biggest advantage would be that the choppers are already in the area for quick evacuation and medevacs.

Ex: We figure out where Bin Laden's been bin chillin. Choppers quickly bring in local SF who drop in for maximum surprise. Bang boom, they capture Bin Laden but take 2 wounded. They need to get out quick. The choppers roll in, pick up the cargo, and boom, we win.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/MIL_HALO_Jump_lg.jpg

http://www.beloblog.com/KGW_Blogs/afghanistan/Panguay,%20firefight%201%20-%2002.jpg

http://www.igadi.org/artigos/2005/imaxes/dh47_chinook_helicopter_daychopan_afghanistan640.jpg

I'm pretty sure special operators are the only ones jumping out of choppers. I doubt any "regular" airborne unit does that.

[ November 20, 2007, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: the Fighting Seabee ]

[sross]

The main advantage of using a CH46/47 in comparison to a fixed wing aircraft is that you do not need an airfield to take off from. This allows airborne operations from seaborne assets as well as forward deployed assets.

[JonS]

Ah, thanks guys

[TylerF]

Hey thanks guys! Just what I needed!

A further question. Is there any know operations using this method? I'm not necessarily talking the US here, but any country.

I've always had an interest in heli copters and heli ops, so I find info on this stuff quite interesting.

[the Fighting Seabee]

I'm not sure. If there has been one or more it's still classified.

Here's another cool link.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/airborne-jumps.htm

Cool video

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/275832/us_army_paratroopers_jumping_out_of_a_helicopter/

[bitchen frizzy]

I once worked with a guy who was in spec ops in the Texas National Guard. He told of low-altitude night jumps from small helicopters as training for LRRP missions.

He stressed the importance of using the legs to get a good strong kick off of the chopper's landing skid so that the parachute wouldn't open into the rotor blades.

[SgtMuhammed]

When I was at Ft. Lewis, 1st SFG used to jump out of Chinooks all the time. Actually I have seen them jump out of pretty much anything they can get into the air, including balloons.

[Holman]

I can see the use for this in special operations, but for a large-scale landing it seems it would be better to just do a traditional heli-assault, with troops jumping off the birds at the LZ rather than in the air over it. The risk of wounded landings would be less, troops could carry more and heavier equipment, and the danger to the helicopters is probably not any higher.

[Stirling]

I used to watch my father jump from Hueys when he was with the Special Forces. He always landed fine. The ones who flew into powerlines or barbed wire fences didn't have much fun, though.

[ironbar]

Helo’s have the advantage of traversing a DZ at a much slower airspeed than fixed wing ( C-130 = 120 knots indicated, 100 ft per sec, jumpers exit at 2 second interval, 20 man stick spread along at least 4000 ft line, helo’s can pick any speed they want short of 120 kias).

All that having been said- much better to fast rope in, (if for some reason the helos can’t touch down) everybody lands together, don’t have to derig jump gear, lower incidence of jump injuries(than static line jumps), first guy down can immediately help the next guy, etc.

As for the mechanics, no real difference in jumping a CH-47, and a C-130, what forward velocity you lack in jumping the helo is more than made up by rotorwash. Jumping the barrage balloon in Thailand is a whole different kettle of fish, a lot more like a static line BASE jump.

[the Fighting Seabee]

Originally posted by ironbar:

All that having been said- much better to fast rope in, (if for some reason the helos can’t touch down) everybody lands together, don’t have to derig jump gear, lower incidence of jump injuries(than static line jumps), first guy down can immediately help the next guy, etc.

As I said earlier, if some choppers roll in everyone nearby will know about it. This not only endangers the choppers, it endangers the men and the mission. If they just jump in, there is much less likelihood they will be met with a hail of bullets. The enemy doesn't find out you're there until you're ready (hopefully).

Then you have the choppers already loitering and ready for speedy extraction. Simple as that.

[sross]

I can see the biggest advantage for night ops. You don't fast rope at night. You keep the birds in motion so the enemy doesn't know you are dropping bodies and gives a better element of surprise.

[ironbar]

Have US forces discontinued night-time fast rope ops? I know it was a common operation in the mid to late 90's. If I am not mistaken a 3 SF Group guy was KIA'd in Aug 03, in OEF, during a nighttime fast rope.