air recon?

[Panzer_M]

I use it now with airstrikes, looking to see what is targeted for visuals when I get them, or just strikes for a general area the enemy is located at.

what about adding observation aircraft, that do maybe a sweep, point out a dozen or so enemies in the open and give you an idea of their location.

The game's AA systems would have no problems downing a Hs 126 or Fi 156 or just to drive them off.

I don't know, does it sound gamey?

[Michael Dorosh]

How often did infantry battalions use air liaison? My limited knowledge tells me "seldom if ever." And not during a running battle. Air OPs were used for artillery missions, but not for recce.

[JonS]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

And not during a running battle. Air OPs were used for artillery missions, but not for recce.

No, they did recce too, but generally for higher commanders (Bde and up, generally Div/Corps and up). The info would eventually find it's way back down to CM-scale units, but generally in timeframes well outside those of even the longest CM scen.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by JonS:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

And not during a running battle. Air OPs were used for artillery missions, but not for recce.

No, they did recce too, but generally for higher commanders (Bde and up, generally Div/Corps and up). The info would eventually find it's way back down to CM-scale units, but generally in timeframes well outside those of even the longest CM scen. </font>

[RSColonel_131st]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

How often did infantry battalions use air liaison?

Wasn't part of the german's "Blitzkrieg" success the air liaison officers riding along in the first tanks to guide the planes in?

I would imagine that such a company would very well get the updates from the flyboys.

Perhabs it could be an unit - kind of like an artillery FO.

[Zalgiris 1410]

Yes they had air liason officers but they were more for the targeting of supporting bombing attacks than for receiving recce observations at the tactical level as Dorosh posted.

Certainly recon flights were an important capability and the Luftwaffe devoted much resources to it especially for the early Blitzkrieg but it was more operational than tactical though there was a tactical aspect to it.

However, AFAIK, pre-battle tactical airial-photography was definately used as well as running battle observation made but I think that there was a time delay in the processing and dissimination of this material down to the tactical level far outside the scope of CM scale battles. I do know of plenty of instances where airial photos were used in the planning of smale scale actions, especially of assualts on prepared positions but no where have I come across a source where direct battlefield airial recce obsvervation was able to be immidiately exploited tactically.

I can think only of it being used to check or ajust artillery fires may be but not for against pin point individual unit targets as apposed to say deep counter battery fire where it might have been used, though to what degree I'm not sure.

[ozi_digger]

Well I've just wandered over from the CMAK air power thread and will add my $0.002 worth.

Real-time aerial reconnaissance for the battlefield commander? Forget it - modern army commanders are only just getting their heads around it now since it was first introduced at the Battle of Loos in 1915 (thats because they get to 'own' the assets now).

Aerial photography? Is another example of army pig-headedness in certain circles. Commanders who appreciated air power would usually ensure they had tasked the necessary assets with a lot of notice beforehand. It still depend on a lot of factors - aircraft availability, weather, ToT etc. If it can be included in the CMx2 mission brief, then why not? You gonna dig up a bona fide aerial recon photo that was used in the actual mission brief in the *insert TBA CMx2 setting here*...?

Aerial spotting for artillery? Yep, bring it on. *If* it can be appropriately modelled for CM (think borg vs relative spotting on a big scale) then I'm all for it. But you pay the price in purchase points for having a Thor hovering above the battlefield with a basket full of thunderbolts. Add misrecognition of your own troops in the mix for good measure.

Aerial FAC? Again, bring it on with all of the factors mentioned above, with double the chances of bringing it down on a friendly unit.

*dons flamesuit*

OK, bring on all of the emotional name-calling.

[Andreas]

Good write-up.

[dalem]

Can't we just get rid of the air element altogether? I know from a marketing standpoint the answer is probably "no", but having airplanes around at all at the CM scale just bugs me.

-dale

[Andreas]

The closest I can think of are some instances where German planes threw hand-written messages to spearheads of the nature 'there are tanks on yon hill'. Briefing in CM, and presumably in CMx2. It certainly was not 'there is an HMG at the little copse half-right 500m ahead, and a gun emplacement behind the big red-bricked farmhouse next to the pond 800m to your half-left, while a platoon position is spread out along the ridge line 750m straight ahead, and five tanks in reserve assembled around the town square, not the big one but the smaller to the west at the intersection of Fliegerallee and Adolfstrasse.'

It's not the Pizza Hut delivery service.

[Zalgiris 1410]

Good example of the difference between what I meant above by operational assistance as aposed to tactical airial recce able to be immediately followed upon, thanks Andreas. BTW you seem to have an unrealistic opinion of the Pizza Hut delivery service, IMO!

[Ardem]

'Fieseler Storch' were assigned to German commanders for recon purposes again these would radio back to HQ about details on the overall units not specifics. Who then would pass on the new back to the battalion commander

But for CM time frames and specifics OP flights would be useless.

[Taki]

I Also think that you dont need an Recon Airplane. A Chance for Units with Binos scanning a Sector of view and getting a % Chance of finding a hiding enemy is enough i guess. Reconreports can be done in the Missino Briefing.