Jagdratt Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 I am unable to run CMBO under OS X. It does, of course, cause the Classic environment to fire up but won't run. The OS is the latest build, my machine is a G4 733 with the nVidia GeForce2 card. Everything under the OS X environment is dead stock. I've read posts here from folks enquiring about an OS X native version, so I assume they're able to run CMBO in the Classic environment. Any suggestions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 You have to remove the 'Classic RAVE' extension and I think it will run in software mode (but I'm not sure). The Classic RAVE extension is necessary for hardware support of 3D RAVE calls, but it doesn't support the latest revision of RAVE that CM is dependent on and therefore CM can't run with hardware rendering. I believe that OS X will reinstall Classic RAVE when it sees that it isn't present, so this is something that you'll have to repeat often. I'm not absolutely sure of CM running in Classic mode (within OS X). Your best bet is to boot into Classic mode when you want to play CM. The best solution is to have a separate partition with OS 9.x.x on it, Classic RAVE removed and make sure that its System folder isn't the Classic mode designated system folder (I'd suggest installing a Classic Mode folder in the OS X partition and using it for Classic apps under OS X). With this scheme it would be possible to run CM with hardware rendering (though you'll run into a problem with the GeForce and the resolution of the background 'sky' bitmaps - a GeForce driver problem). I'd suggest searching some more on the Tech and General forums about OS X (using the Search function - browsing defaults to the last 10 days of posts and you'll have to manually set it to display posts from further back). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vice108 Posted December 30, 2001 Share Posted December 30, 2001 I have the identical machine. The bottem line is that CMBO runs using rave instead of open GL for graphics. Although classic runs 99% of programs very well - there are some limitations - and CMBO is one of them. I'm happy to report ,however, that the game runs beautifully in Os 9.2.2, and that the GeForce 2 MX is powerful enough for me to run all the mods I want without any slowdowns. Although I use Os X exclusively now, I still restart in 9.2.2 to play CMBO - not that big of a deal. As for the classic rave extension, and having the Os' on different partitions ----- don't worry about it. Leave the extensions alone - it plays great the way it is in 9.2.2. As for the seperate partitions for different operating systems - this is a big debate on apple-centric message boards. I run both on one partition and everything works great ---- dont forget, this is the way apple sells them afterall - with both OS' on one partition. I hope this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by vice108: I have the identical machine. The bottem line is that CMBO runs using rave instead of open GL for graphics. Although classic runs 99% of programs very well - there are some limitations - and CMBO is one of them. I'm happy to report ,however, that the game runs beautifully in Os 9.2.2, and that the GeForce 2 MX is powerful enough for me to run all the mods I want without any slowdowns. Although I use Os X exclusively now, I still restart in 9.2.2 to play CMBO - not that big of a deal. As for the classic rave extension, and having the Os' on different partitions ----- don't worry about it. Leave the extensions alone - it plays great the way it is in 9.2.2. As for the seperate partitions for different operating systems - this is a big debate on apple-centric message boards. I run both on one partition and everything works great ---- dont forget, this is the way apple sells them afterall - with both OS' on one partition. I hope this helps.<hr></blockquote> YES 9.2.2 works fine I ran CMBO on a brand new white iBook (500 megahurtz) and it ran GREAT fully loaded with mods right out of the box. Just boot into 9.2.2 and you will be FINE the OSX RAVE open GL (known) issue is a big problem and the only known solution at this time is to boot into 9.2.2 for rave based games like CMBO. -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdratt Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> the OSX RAVE open GL (known) issue is a big problem and the only known solution at this time is to boot into 9.2.2 for rave based games like CMBO. <hr></blockquote> Drat! Thanks anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 still an issue In late June 2002 Photoshop will be available on OSX that will be the defining moment for MOST Mac users and still there will be NO CMBO or CMBB on OSX how long will will wait for a BTS product CM?? on Mac OSX??? at least 24 months from NOW I would be willing to bet. -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Sadly, yes we will still be waiting. You would think that our dear friends at Adobe would have been a bit quicker given the number of programers they posess. This had been a sore spot for us all, and probably nearly as much (or even more so given the amount of flak they have suffered for Apple changing the standard) for BTS as they did make CMBO on a Mac. The worst thing is that we aren't likely to be out of the woods for a while now that Mr Gates has the keys to the Open GL kingdom now as well. :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 CMBO is the only program that keeps me from using OS X full time, I use it as often as I can otherwise. *Maybe* a revision of RAVE for OS X will come around. Gyrene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gyrene: CMBO is the only program that keeps me from using OS X full time, I use it as often as I can otherwise. *Maybe* a revision of RAVE for OS X will come around. Gyrene<hr></blockquote> ME too in a BIG way I will NEED MAC OSX on my laptop when Photoshop arrives, until then I sort of have one "somewhat" lame excuse for not going to OSX but come this June I will need a dual boot laptop to play CMBO and well, that is sort of inconvient. -tom w [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]</p> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatious J. Fathead Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: ME too in a BIG way I will NEED MAC OSX on my laptop when Photoshop arrives, until then I sort of have one "somewhat" lame excuse for not going to OSX but come this June I will need a dual boot laptop to play CMBO and well, that sort of SUCKS! -tom w<hr></blockquote> All Macs will be dual-boot by definition, from now until whenever. Years, probably. So CM will never be far from reach. Nonetheless, count me as another CM fan lamenting the silence of BTS on the OS X issue. I wish they'd at least tell us what's happening on that front. Please? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I can't speak for BTS officially... and just for the edification of those who haven't heard BTS's earlier statements on the subject. CMBO and CMBB will not run under OS X natively or in Compatibility Mode (while in OS X) with hardware-rendering. The RAVE support doesn't exist in OS X to run either program correctly and there is nothing that BTS can do about it (other than to do Apple's job and write the RAVE to OpenGL shim - yeah, right...). There is not enough time to rewrite CMBB as an OpenGL app. It would probably delay CMBB another year to do that, just to please those who are using OS X (which, believe it or not, constitutes the minority of Mac users at the moment). The engine rewrite (CMII, the next project after CMBB) will give Charles the opportunity to switch to the OpenGL API. Since the whole engine is going to be rewritten this is the appropriate time to make such a fundamental change in the way CM is programmed (though this hasn't been stated officially; however by the time that CM3: The Med comes out OS XII will probably be the reigning OS). It just isn't practical for BTS to spend the time to switch APIs. It is much too time consuming and it is more appropriately done when the whole engine is going to be re-examined. While OS X may be nice and all and it is the future of the Mac; I'm sure most of you would rather have CMBB in three months rather than 15 months. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatious J. Fathead Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I don't claim to understand all of the technical issues and I don't mean to get on anybody's case, but CM is the only application I've found to date that won't run in Classic mode (what I presume you meant by "compatibility mode") -- with or without hardware rendering. I just doesn't work at all. Yes, I realize that most Mac users are not in OS X today, but as of the first week of this month, all new Macs will be shipped with OS X as the default, so the changeover will be coming faster then you might expect, especially if the new iMac is a hit. Also, Apple announced the move to OpenGL two years ago, so it's not exactly news. Again, not to harp on this point -- BTS is, after all, one of the few Mac-friendly game houses around -- but it sounds like BTS won't be getting with the program until four years after OpenGL was adopted by Apple for 3-d rendering. That's a long time by any reckoning. [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Ignatious J. Fathead ]</p> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Interestingly enough many RAVE games do work in under Classic mode, Unreal Tournament is one of them. (Yes, in Rave) There is a new UT launcher that is OS X native and runs in OpenGL, but the Rave version works fine. CM and OS X might not be as unattainable as we think. After a shaky start I now really really like OS X, and I am more than ready not to use 9 anymore. Gyrene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gyrene: Interestingly enough many RAVE games do work in under Classic mode, Unreal Tournament is one of them. (Yes, in Rave) There is a new UT launcher that is OS X native and runs in OpenGL, but the Rave version works fine. CM and OS X might not be as unattainable as we think. After a shaky start I now really really like OS X, and I am more than ready not to use 9 anymore. Gyrene<hr></blockquote> interesting I am a professional mac Tech geek and it pains me to admit I do not know what a UT launcher is. Someone here once spoke of a "shim" between RAVE and Open GL any news on that? CMBO and CMBB in OSX would be great of there was a way to translate the RAVE API to Open GL, I have unfortunately not heard much about this as most games have abandoned RAVE long ago. BUT CMBB will be/is being written in RAVE so that will continue to be an issue with Open GL on OSX I think what we really need here is to bring this to the attention of someone at Apple (preferably through a personal connection) and ask Apple if they would care to help out.... (or is that just plain silly :confused: ) Is it even possible to actually program a "shim" or write some code to make RAVE talk to Open GL so it will translate on the fly or something like that? Sorry if that did not sound technical enough? -tom w [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]</p> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I'm not sure what level of RAVE support that UT needs, but it is quite possible that they don't need the latest revision. CMBO & CMBB need the latest revision of RAVE to work properly. It is these latest calls that aren't supported by the 'Classic RAVE' shim in OS X. I don't think that Apple is really interested in supporting the latest revision of RAVE in OS X. As far as I'm aware the Classic RAVE extension converts RAVE calls to OpenGL calls to allow the app to work with the video hardware that is under OS X's control. I don't know how complex this process gets in terms of trying to convert all these calls into their OpenGL equivalents, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being too much of a headache to attempt converting every call that RAVE 1.6 (latest ?) has. Therefore Apple probably converted the calls that were supported in the next-to-latest version of RAVE, a version that isn't sufficient for CM's purposes. BTS started coding on CM before the annoucement of their shift to OpenGL. I believe over a year of work had gone into CMBO before Apple made their pronouncment. Plus I believe that they stated they would support RAVE programs and RAVE had the best support on the Mac at the time, not OpenGL. Yes, Apple is pushing OS X hard. But not everyone owns a new Mac. BTS has only one programmer, not a dozen; so changes take time and a graphical API conversion is a lot of work. Ask Adobe how many programmers they have working on PhotoShop and then ask why it will take them until June 2002 to come out with an OS X version. Surely their best customers must be using OS X right now. As for CM not working in Classic Mode... it has to run in software rendering, which requires that the Classic RAVE extension be disabled/removed since it will attempt to pass RAVE calls to the hardware, which won't work. If you're running in a dual boot setup, then the Prefs file may have settings to use hardware rendering which just won't work in Classic Mode under OS X. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> I am a professional mac Tech geek and it pains me to admit I do not know what a UT launcher is. <hr></blockquote> Tom, the UT launcher is just the Unreal Tournament app to start the game. There's a beta version that is OS X native and uses Open GL exclusively. Gyrene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatious J. Fathead Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Schrullenhaft: [deletia] Yes, Apple is pushing OS X hard. But not everyone owns a new Mac. BTS has only one programmer, not a dozen; so changes take time and a graphical API conversion is a lot of work. Ask Adobe how many programmers they have working on PhotoShop and then ask why it will take them until June 2002 to come out with an OS X version. Surely their best customers must be using OS X right now. As for CM not working in Classic Mode... it has to run in software rendering, which requires that the Classic RAVE extension be disabled/removed since it will attempt to pass RAVE calls to the hardware, which won't work. If you're running in a dual boot setup, then the Prefs file may have settings to use hardware rendering which just won't work in Classic Mode under OS X.[/QB]<hr></blockquote> On the second count, I believe I can confirm your theory. I removed the ClassicRave extension (this must be done after the Classic Environment is started, or OS X will replace it). CM will run, but in a very low-res mode. With ClassicRAVE present, CM gets to the "loading 3-d graphics" screen, and halts. I can hear the battlefield sound effects, but no graphics. Merely as a point of order, all OS X setups are dual boot with OS 9. To the previous point, Adobe has certainly been laggardly in producing an OS X version of Photoshop, but the current version of Photoshop does run in the Classic Environment. What they've been working on for a year or more is an OS X native version of the application, which is a very different beast as it requires re-writing the entire application to the Carbon APIs, and Photoshop is one big momma of an application with over a decade of legacy code. I have agree with the previous poster -- once you spend a little time in OS X, you don't want to go back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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