Do you attack the pilot or wingman?

[Mudfrost]

Of course it depends on the cards, but do you most often target the pilot or the wingman?

I'm still new at this. Sharpening my skills. Slowly.

[Inigo Montoya]

In general I always target the leader when playing against AI, but the wingman when playing a human opponent. It is harder to kill a leader (more cards), but if you can do it the advantage swings tremendously in your favor because when the wingman is promoted to leader, he loses almost all his skills (except Natural Pilot, Sturdy, and cards).

[Sixxkiller]

And attacking the wingman with a 12 card leader on the first move vs a human isnt fair and really shows no skill whatsoever and should be changed, especially since you can buy an ace card before the game.

[Baron von Beergut]

So is there some sort of unwritten rule on this?

I also go for the wingman first as the leader is too hard to kill. And people I play do the same to me.

But I just played someone that got very upset about that and considered me a very dishonorable player for attacking his wingman.

It ruined the game as neither of us were comfortable once he brought that to my attention.

I told him that as a combat veteran I learned that war sucks and you do anything you can to survive. He got mad and said I talk and suck.

So does this mean that you have to set up rules of engagement before you play someone so as to avoid offending them?

Or should the game mechanics be changed?

[Sixxkiller]

Scott,

I get mad at this too as some people here will attest. I did kill horas wingy first in the tourney. I honestly felt bad about it.

[Horatius]

Don´t feel too bad, i had only one defence card for the leader (an ace) in the first two turns,so it would have made no difference at all

And it is a very effective tactic, even if you had a 6000 pilot against a 3000

And finally: I would have done the same in the tournament, escorts are hard enough against humans !

[lakespeed]

To me, it depends on my draws. If I think I can't kill the AI leader first but can kill his wingman, then I go for it. It depends on altitude and position. My experience has taught me that whoever goes first has the advantage, and if you don't use it you won't survive very long. That's why I've lost a total of 2 pilots, and one of them was a stupid move on my part. I've also had the game since it came out, and all my pilots are 100+ kill veterans, so I do somewhat know how to play, so once again it's just MHO.

Wingmen are quite capable of defending themselves after just a few skills and top plane levels, and with redraws and extra cards you could have a possibility of having upwards of 7 to 8 cards. So wingman are not pushovers. And in escort missions I try to get my aircraft at an altitude between the interceptors and the bombers to force the opposing aircraft set to attack only my wingman for this reason, I feel a wingman can defend himself.

I've found myself going after the leader a lot more, especially if I think I can get the quick kill, but I've also noticed that it's become a lot harder to do and that I'm spending alot more time hitting the silk. The new expansion has improved the AI quality and decision making so that the game is not a 4-kill Escort mission cakewalk, which it used to be 80% of the time before.

I expect the same from human opponents, to me dogfighting isn't a "noble" thing, it's about survival. And yes I realize it's just a game but if I get spend all my time not earning XP and working to get my ED's back because I'm spending a lot of time getting shot down, well that's not a heck of a lot of fun. And I've been there and done that.

Of course, that's just MHO and YMMV, and I'm sure some will disagree and that's OK. It's a fun game to me and I just enjoy playing it.

That's also one of the great things about this game. It's a very hard game to balance with aircraft stats and AI game play to keep the game fun and not making it a pushover for either the human player or the AI. I have a lot of respect for Dan and Brian in regards to this and also because they are willing to listen to feedback and make adjustments to the gameplay as needed.

Just don't get me started on IMS:2D cards, Sixxkiller's sexiness, or Mike's love of sheep.

[ October 21, 2006, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: lakespeed ]

[cyrano01]

I'm with the others. If you get first shot you have to use it and if you reckon you won't be able to kill the leader then the wingie has to go.

If you can't kill either then it may sometimes be beneficial to engage the enemy leader in order to avoid him massacring your wingman.

[Peregrine921]

Just don't get me started on IMS:2D cards

Definitely agree on this one, that card in conjuction with the ability to buy an ace gives this card WAY to much power.

I would totally be in favor of toning this card down to a IMS3:Destroyed. That actually forces someone to, at the minimum, get "advantaged" on someone to utilize the card.

or

Toning it down to a IMS2:4D.

or

Remove the card completely if toning it down "nerfing" it is not an option.

Peregrine aka Mark

[Baron von Beergut]

I half way agree with the idea of making IMS destroyed into a more difficult card to use. When this game first came out you could buy that card. Maybe they should make it that you cannot buy the Ace card either?

As for the honor of not attacking the wingman though, I don't see a problem. People do it to me, I don't like it, but I accept it as a worthwhile tactic. In the U-boat war they accused them of dishonorable tactics by not first surfacing before attack and the whole point is to quickly destroy your foe. In the battle that upset my opponent his plane was over 3700 points and mine over 2400 and he won as expected with that point difference. I felt my only chance was to strike hard first and escape with a verticle card and he didn't think that play was fair even though his wingy was only damaged.

In the air most aces got most of their kills in a one strike surprise attack and not by dogfighting. And if you attack the main pilot first with all those cards you will be dogfighting and not killing that first turn. Besides, I want to get rid of the wingman especially when he has skills such as Anticipation, Spoil Aim, Leader Advice, etc to make it easier to get the main pilot later.

So to those that consider it dishonorable to attack the wingy first, I am sorry, but unless you declare it a "rule" before we battle, expect me to use the tactic of trying to get the first shot in and make it as deadly as possible - most likely by attacking the wingy.

[Zanadu]

Playing local against the AI, you had BETTER be able to buy an ACE or your chances of living thru the first turn decline radically.

When your leader is valued at 190, and his opponant is valued at 50, but has several more skills, and more xtra draws, when he is attacking first, you need a fairly good supporting hand even with the ACE to have your leader survive long enough to see his segement of turn one.

This has happened to my best German leader three times in the last four games he was in, and he come in at Hi. He was shot down first turn twice out of the three, and the third time he was damaged and reduced to only two structure points, because he had only one or two other defensive cards to go with the ACE.

[blackbellamy]

People make me laugh. Complaining about your wingman being shot is so low class and arrogant to boot. Take your lumps like a man.