Sixxkiller Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Actually I think DIF should be able to compete with other online games. This kind of pricing model has proven to work. Also you have to remember that this game has been out about a year already. Sales arent like say Warcraft or even CM for that matter. So any added revenue will help prolong the life of the game. Besides, it isnt a requirement to buy your pilots life back. You dont die, theres no worries mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Dan and I have been kicking around ideas on this and if we were going to make any changes, I think it should work something like this: 1. If your pilot gets "Killed" in a mission, the game works exactly the same way as it currently does. That is, you are informed that your pilot was killed and the pilot becomes inactive. 2. We change the "Manage Pilots" screen so that you can switch to viewing your pilot "graveyard" or "infirmary". In this mode you can view your inactive pilots but obviously you can't purchase skills, etc. However, there will be a new button to "Reactivate" the inactive pilot that you are currently viewing. 3. If you choose to reactive a pilot, you will be informed that the pilot will lose 10% of his Cumulative XP, 10% of his Kills and maybe 10% of his Medals (not sure about this one since we'd have to figure out which medals to remove). Fatigue points will be set to zero and of course you must have an open slot for that nationality (i.e., you must currently have less than 4 active pilots). 4. We will also keep a count of how many times a pilot has been reactivated and show that number on the Leader Board. We could also put a new filter on the Leader Board that would allow players to only show pilots who have been reactivated 0, 1, 2, 3, etc. times. The default would be to show only those pilots who have been reactivated zero times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iplaygames2 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 That sounds good, brian, but I'd venture to say the xp loss is too lenient. I'd say you lose 25% of your xp/kills/medals (do medals really matter?) each time you revive a pilot. Just my $.02! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Medals don't really matter from a game-play standpoint, but have "bragging rights" value to some players. You may be right about the percentage being too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 I really like the idea of sorting by 0, 1, 2..., but I guess I just don't understand your insistance on punishing pilots by taking stuff away from them, especially the kills and damage stats. To me, sorting by "0" as default, means that the "0" is the major league and the other sorts of 1, 2.... are just for fun. To me, once your pilot gets killed, then that pilot is out of competition. "0" is the original game for all the hardcore players. Other sorts are for players like me, who don't really have any major interest in Leader Board, but are interested in the personal statistics. Once you start taking stuff away from my pilots, you are messing with my accomplishments. Then you might as well keep the game the way it is. After all, you are keeping the game as it was, only adding additional content for us lesser players that can't cope with loosing all of their stats with their favorite pilots. I don't care if you tag my pilot with 50 deaths, but I want to know how many planes I have shot down and damaged overall during my playing career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iplaygames2 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Well okay then, how about this? When you create a pilot (or 1x per pilots career, anyway) you have the option to have him on the "ladder". If he's on the ladder, that's where teh whole percentage loss upon death comes into play. If he's not a ladder pilot, then make him invincible. Sure, it takes away the realism of the game, but if there's no way for him to be tracked on a ladder system, what does it hurt? I can see Pauls point; the only reason I play online is so I can see my guys totals for kills/missions/etc at a glance on the Leaderboard/'my pilots' option. I don't ever plan on cracking the top 20 or so ladder pilots, and that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Ya I agree with Paul. Taking away kills and damages isnt logical. Taking away buying power is one thing, adding fatigue would be logical, but taking away stats just wouldnt be fun. I mean I so rarely die as it is, but taking away 120 of my kills would make me want to quit. Also part of the fun for me is fearing dying. It takes away from the core game because some of the newer players lose thier pilots. I mean if you look at the ladder only a few players over 200 kills has even ever died. I lost lots of pilots before I learned to properly play. Losing a pilot with 100 kills isnt much of an investment, as they get better they will come to understand that. I would rather we figure out a way to match squadrons against eachother so people become more involved. Thats one of the things thats missing. But I dont back down from my pay to revive theory. A few bucks to save a loved pilot isnt much. Its costlier to buy a cup of coffee or give to a save the children organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I can't help but be amused at the divergent opinions on this issue. It seems that no matter what we do, there will be some group of players that won't like it. Such is life. Ya I agree with Paul. Taking away kills and damages isnt logical. Taking away buying power is one thing, adding fatigue would be logical, but taking away stats just wouldnt be fun. I mean I so rarely die as it is, but taking away 120 of my kills would make me want to quit. Well, the simple answer to this is that you leave your pilot inactive. Then you don't lose any of your stats. That's not meant to be a flip answer, by the way. It is actually an intentional design feature. A player who loses a pilot with low stats isn't going to care if he loses 10% of his XP, Kills, etc. However, a player who loses a pilot who has very high stats (and possibly holds the record in one or more categories) will probably opt to permamently retire his pilot rather than lose stats. But he his no worse off than he is today (i.e., his pilot is permanently dead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I have to agree with six (cough splutter) and Paul - taking away actual achievements (kills, damages, medals) makes no sense to me - taking away exp and adding fatigue are different tho - they are not "real" in the sense that they are things that have ben done - they are derived values calculated for game advancement purposes. If Exp is to be taken away then what experience? Algy is at about 45000pts, but of then about 11 or 12,000 are unspent - losing 25% of his Exp wouldn't cost me anything 'cos I'd just expend his unspent points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Right Brian but therein lies an issue I hadnt thought of. It penalizes you unfairly for say an elite pilot dying as opposed to someone who is much lower down the totem pole. Maybe if you are going to implement this you should think of a cap number so the penalty isnt so out of proportion. Truthfully I never think I will die as my best pilot doesnt have to face off with the Me-262 Thank you Japan for allying with Germany and not the Allies! But every mainstream RPG I have ever played doesnt take away your skills if you die, just your gold and experience (except for hardcore Diablo 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 "Well, the simple answer to this is that you leave your pilot inactive. Then you don't lose any of your stats. That's not meant to be a flip answer, by the way. It is actually an intentional design feature." Wow, I could not ever willingly give up my pilot with those stats. What is needed then is an end game. Say you reach 1000 kills or whatever, you tell the player that he won the war, pin a medal on his chest and he can start over. "A player who loses a pilot with low stats isn't going to care if he loses 10% of his XP, Kills, etc." Well, that depends on the definition of low stats. It may take me a whole weekend to get 20 kills. I may be off course here, but isn't the concern here to keep the new players interested and playing? I have said my peace on this topic. I appreciate the fact that you developers are listening and trying to improve the game. I'm enjoying the game as it is now. I just don't know how I will react when I loose my favorite pilot. And I'm looking forward to the East Front with all the changes that come with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 All good input, guys. And we're not changing anything right away. This is more of a fact finding mission right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine921 Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 I think the real issue and concern is....playing the AI or playing against a Human. I have found with due diligence that I should not die against the AI as long as I do not get greedy and play to my pilots abilities. Pretty much what Sixx has already said. That being said, the real problem is the lack of Human vs Human battles. Nobody wants to play their "top dog" against another Human due to the "increased" risk of their favorite pilot getting nuked by the "human factor". Lets face it, the AI is good, but predictable. The true challenge is playing another living breathing player, who can be unpredictable. Thats where the players/moderators/developers should concentrate on a model in which we can use our top pilots and see how we fare against one another rather than the AI. One look at the leader board on the Human Filter will back up what I just laid out. The powers that be figure out that dilemma, and Sixx's ideas about squadron vs squadron play becomes much closer to reality as players will not have to fear about losing pilots that they have worked hard for. Squadron play could have a "flag" set for each pilot so when they do get killed, they sit out for the rest of the campaign or for a set amount of missions or whatever guidelines set forth by the devs. My two cents Peregrine (aka Mark) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 I like that idea. Maybe for human vs. human missions a pilot receives 45 Fatigue Points if he is "Killed". If you're playing against the AI only, then your pilot becomes inactive and you have to reactivate him with whatever penalties we decide are appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeleg Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 I am a new DiF player, but I really like the risk factor surrounding pilot mortality. The danger is part of the fun and one of the main factors that draws me to the game. There is always that knowledge in the back of your mind that your #1 ace pilot might get killed when he sorties. It makes your choices when playing that much more exciting and challenging. Now, if I had invested the time and effort that some of the top players have put into their pilots, I suppose I might feel differently, but so many games in other genres shy away from the finality of a player-character's (pilot's) death, it has been a refreshing change to see it modeled in DiF. If there is going to be a change to the system, I would vote for pretty stiff penalties. There should be a sting when you revive a "dead" pilot. If not this, then how about an optional mode that a player can select when they create a character: A "hardcore" (ala Diablo 2) or "ironman" mode that makes death for that pilot what it is in reality - final. These might be tracked separately in the ladder or these pilots could receive XP bonuses/medals as an incentive. Non-hardocre pilots can be revived and might still be penalized but it wouldn't need to be as severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastakyle Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Originally posted by jakeleg: I am a new DiF player, but I really like the risk factor surrounding pilot mortality. The danger is part of the fun and one of the main factors that draws me to the game. There is always that knowledge in the back of your mind that your #1 ace pilot might get killed when he sorties. It makes your choices when playing that much more exciting and challenging. Now, if I had invested the time and effort that some of the top players have put into their pilots, I suppose I might feel differently, but so many games in other genres shy away from the finality of a player-character's (pilot's) death, it has been a refreshing change to see it modeled in DiF. If there is going to be a change to the system, I would vote for pretty stiff penalties. There should be a sting when you revive a "dead" pilot. If not this, then how about an optional mode that a player can select when they create a character: A "hardcore" (ala Diablo 2) or "ironman" mode that makes death for that pilot what it is in reality - final. These might be tracked separately in the ladder or these pilots could receive XP bonuses/medals as an incentive. Non-hardocre pilots can be revived and might still be penalized but it wouldn't need to be as severe. These are good ideas, I'd like to see Bartbert's above system with the ironman option listed above....great ideas guys....now let's get that expansion released! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 The expansion was released 6 months ago. You didnt get it yet rastak? All you need to do is hack the battlefront server, download the files, then go to Brians house and get yourself a CD key. Sheesh some people are just plain lazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastakyle Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Originally posted by Sixxkiller: The expansion was released 6 months ago. You didnt get it yet rastak? All you need to do is hack the battlefront server, download the files, then go to Brians house and get yourself a CD key. Sheesh some people are just plain lazy! Good point Sixx, I'll get right on it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakespeed Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I think if you're dead.....you're dead. When you are flying you already automatically have ED as a safety valve. And if you lose your ED getting blasted, then you still not only can regain it, but there is no guarentee that if you get shot down again that you are going to die. If you allow a pilot to never die, then you may as well get rid of all of the stats and awards, because then it just becomes a battle of who spends the most time playing, not who plays the best. To me IMHO that's just not a lot of fun. Even though I've had battled and had it handed to me time and time again, the only real time I lost a pilot was poor decision making by me in the combat. Granted, I haven't played that much during the summer (summer is playtime outside!) I will be back on full-force in the next month or so, and look forward to playing the new expansion. I have checked in here from time to time just to see if anything has changed a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Looking forward to seeing you play again Eric. Welcome back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts