Paul Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I have invested a good portion of this past weekend into this game and here are my “noob” observations. I have really enjoyed the game in the early stages, until ED showed up. He was there, hanging around from the beginning, but I just ignored him. Then, when my pilots gained around 500 points and one of them got killed, I started looking for him. Now that I have climbed to the 1000 point level I’m afraid to fly without him. Terrified is more like it. My fear came to life after running into two Bf 109f planes. Their leader had value of 35 with 7(x) draw extra cards and the wingman had six.. My pilot had a value of 15. Every time that I have managed to about smoke the leader, he paused, pulled a card out of his back packet and with a laughter got away. They always seemed to have 8 or 9 cards ready to play, while I was down to around four. Needless to say, both of my planes got turned into smoking rubble, but luckily they have survived. After that experience, I’m obsessed with ED to a point of not wanting to fly without him. To be frank about it, I just don’t want to loose my pilots after investing all this time into developing them. When I look around the server, I mostly see the same old names and very few players. And I ask myself, is it because of ED? My own sons, while enthused about the game at first, are loosing interest because of ED. They will only fly against me, and only after I promise not to shoot them down. So we play until one of the pilots has one point left and then he is off limits. But that is no fun either. So, to sum it up, ED is creating a lot of stress in a game, that is supposed to relieve us of stress from our daily lives. I believe that people would be playing more against each other online, if they did not have to worry about loosing their pilots. It is hard to match players against each other with the same point level without creating new pilots. I know that I will not fly, if somebody has more points than me. And young people don’t like facing adversity going against AI that always has all these extra cards. They are the ones to want all the advantages, or at least be even with AI. Their stimulus is to watch the AI go down in flames and not the other way around. Thank you for reading. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Paul, There is a very simple solution for you and your son to continue enjoying the game. Did you know you have a 20% chance of respawning an Escape Death for every mission you survive? You and your son could have a gentlemen's agreement to fly against one another, but not shoot each other down, until you both have respawned your ED's. Then the gloves come off again! I hope this helps! 8 ) -Inigo, a.k.a. "The Bride" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'd be interested in hearing what you guys would think about changing the system so that pilots never permanently die. Perhaps instead of permanently removing a pilot, he gets gets a whole bunch of fatigue. That way, the pilot will be out of commission for awhile, but can eventually come back. I think there are a couple of arguments in favor of not permanently killing pilots besides the ones that Paul mentioned. First, I think players become a lot more attached to their pilots than Dan and I thought would be the case. We have had some pretty irate players who lost a pilot that they had spent time building up. Second, many players have found ways of keeping their pilots alive well beyond what Dan and I thought was possible. But in order to do that, players have to work the system by flying low risk missions or getting a buddy to fly a "gentlemen's match", etc. I suspect that these "games within the game" that players have to play to keep their pilots alive ultimately detract from just having fun. Finally, there is plenty of precedent for not killing off players "characters" in the fantasy role-player genre. They might lose some treasure, or weapons or experience points, but they always come back. So, what do you guys think? Should we do away with permanently killing pilots? If so, what should we replace it with? Fatigue? Loss of XP? Loss of a skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Lots of RPG's penalize for deaths. I wouldnt be opposed but I would point out that seeing as how the whole point of playing ladder games is to become one of the top pilots, there will be no way to even come close to catching Bride unless SOMEONE can bait him into playing and shoot him down like the evil German pilot he is. I also think we need a new ladder season just for the expansion, that way everyone starts out on the same foot. I guess we could conceed Brides dominance, my sexiness, and Stalins perversions with the wool communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'm totally in favor of that system! I think I would quit the game if I lost Black Mamba. How about just giving 100 fatigue or something like that? 8 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Oh, and I'm game for restarting the ladder with the expansion. I hope to get to 2000 kills first though! 8 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Just to post obsessively on this topic: 1) I'd be open to losing experience or a skill too. 2) Even though I proposed the gentlemen's agreement with Paul, note that Black Mamba has survived as long as she has because she has never fought a human opponent. Sixx was after me forever to do it, but I'm too cautious. Since I've never been in a human vs human match, there was no "gaming" of the system to avoid death. I had to sweat bullets everytime I was flying without my ED. I will only do dogfights when I've lost my ED and my goal in those missions isn't to shoot anyone down - it's to survive and hope I get the 20% respawn for my ED. To verify I've never fought a human with Black Mamba, you can sort the games by AI or human. 8 ) 3) Brian was exactly right when he said in order to achieve the longevity of a pilot like Black Mamba (whose current experience is 70,000+ and is worth over 1000 points just as a pilot), you have to fly in such a way that it detracts from the fun. The leaderboard represents the most conservative/cautious player instead of the most courageous player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I have never been cautious. If I lost Sadahara I would just remake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 You are much more normal than I am! But is normal all that sexy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iplaygames2 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm all for some type of system where your pilots don't die...100fatigue perhaps, or maybe you lose the last skill you purchased? Your most expensive skill? I'm not sure how to "fix" it, but perma-death seems a bit harsh when the goal is to build your guys up to Ace status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 The most cautious I've ever been is to fly intercepts instead of escorts when I don't have ED - i've never played "dummy" games jsut to get it back. Indeed I've only played Six a couple of times total IIRC....... Losing a skill might be a good idea along with a bunch of exp and/or fatigue. I'm completely against restarting the ladder - I'm never going to have another week when I can score 200+ kills with 1 pilot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: The most cautious I've ever been is to fly intercepts instead of escorts when I don't have ED What is this about flying intercept missions? I thought you could only fly intercept missions in solo (nononline) play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivven_darke Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm also completely against a restart of the ladder. Being close to the 1000 now and dont wanna restart. Would also be difficult to maintain two different ladders at the same time. I agree thats its definitely possible to fly missions with a little bit more cautious strategy and regain the ED skill. As i also play lotta RPG's i think there should be a penalty for dying. No challenge otherwise whwn i knoe i'm immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I am absolutely positively Sixxkillerly AGAINST losing a skill to revive a pilot. I also remember Dan was against reviving pilots before. I am thinking maybe there should be a fee in real world money to resurrect your pilot. Maybe price it as follows.... Over 250 kills $2.50 Over 100 kills $1.50 Over 50 kills $1.00 Under 50 Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Originally posted by Inigo Montoya: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: The most cautious I've ever been is to fly intercepts instead of escorts when I don't have ED What is this about flying intercept missions? I thought you could only fly intercept missions in solo (nononline) play. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I don’t know that much about the game or the ladder yet. But in my own mind,I would envision, if possible, to keep the pilots as they are when they die and just highlight their name in red or make it obvious that they have died. That way they would still be tracked, but would not count for all the honors. Most players are just average or weekend warriors that have no hope of catching the untouchables anyway. Us, bottom feeders are just happy to watch our pilots progress, dead or alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 He was playing an interception mission.... Intercepting those poor sheepies! He didnt mean dogfight he meant S&M (Sheep & Muttonluvin) Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Inigo Montoya: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: The most cautious I've ever been is to fly intercepts instead of escorts when I don't have ED What is this about flying intercept missions? I thought you could only fly intercept missions in solo (nononline) play. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Originally posted by Paul: I don’t know that much about the game or the ladder yet. But in my own mind,I would envision, if possible, to keep the pilots as they are when they die and just highlight their name in red or make it obvious that they have died. That way they would still be tracked, but would not count for all the honors. Most players are just average or weekend warriors that have no hope of catching the untouchables anyway. Us, bottom feeders are just happy to watch our pilots progress, dead or alive. The brilliant folks who developed this game are way ahead of you, my friend. The leaderboard can already be sorted by living vs dead pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm not talking about the pilots that are dead, kaput, finished, over and done with. I'm talking about The Living Dead. But you gave me a food for thought Inigo. Why not just create the Living Dead or Undead category and sort them like that. Now when a pilot gets killed in combat, a player will have a choice. Either leave him dead and create a new pilot, or revive him and move to the Undead category. It would also be nice if those players that lost their pilots in the past, could bring them back again under this new category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iplaygames2 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 And what would the difference be between the Living Dead versus the Living Living pilots? There has to be some sort of penalty - something other than being labeled a zombie to signify a loss of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 The Living Dead would not be able to compete for the best pilot among the Living Living pilots. That to me is a pretty high penalty. At least for those who care for the Leader Board standings. And you would automaticaly create a new competition among the Undead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred19 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I would like to keep the game on the more realistic side. When a pilot is killed in action, he's out of the game. Period. Just my two euro cents, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 There's a problem with retired pilots too tho - you might delete a leader when his wingman is killed because flying with a brand new wingie is too much of a hassle - it's ben done before. These pilots are classed as "dead" because there is no category for "retired" or "promoted to desk job" or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine921 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Originally posted by Sixxkiller: I am thinking maybe there should be a fee in real world money to resurrect your pilot. Maybe price it as follows.... Over 250 kills $2.50 Over 100 kills $1.50 Over 50 kills $1.00 Under 50 Free Thats a really really really bad idea, charging "above and beyond" the cost of the game to keep the benefits of the game is a bad buisness practice and you will alienate people if you go this route....imho. Since there seems to be some backlash to actually Losing a skill or two for permadeath, I kind of like that idea for what its worth, how about you knock off Kills to "resurrect" a dead pilot. The leader board seems to be the main theme here so this seems to be a great way to apease the masses from losing that UBER pilot they spent many hours working on, AT the tradeoff of losing the Kills that that pilot has amassed...maybe on the order of 75% or so. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Originally posted by Sixxkiller: I am absolutely positively Sixxkillerly AGAINST losing a skill to revive a pilot. that's the best argument I've seen for doing it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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