Only 1 plane/Nation..

[Second Front]

Hi

I've juste installed the full game. But Only 1 plane / Nation is flyable !. It's not possible to create a game (local/Multi) with the choice of all planes?

Thank's.

[Moon]

You need to gather enough experience for your pilots to "unlock" the better aircraft.

When you check out the airplane statistics, there is an "unlock XP" value given for each one. You need a pilot with at least that much XP to be able to fly that aircraft model (and only the pilot is able to fly it that has the necessary amount of XP; other pilots with less XP can only choose the lower models). So it's possible to have 4 pilots of the same nation all with different aircraft models to select from due to varying amounts of XP accumulated.

This applies to both the online and local game alike (but not to campaigns).

Martin

[Jack Beckman]

This, for me, is a huge disappointment. The silly Gladiators are nearly useless in the air against the Oscars (which is what's come up the first couple of times I've tried to play). I have no interest in flying the crappy planes or "earning" my way up to better planes in the local version - I just want to fly some dogfights. The demo at least had some decent aircraft. There should be a "non-experiance/fatigue" option to just play some dogfights.

[monTarakid]

Then you should just fly Operations on-line.

mTk

[Stalin's Organ]

But a non-experience/fatigue system would still be good for, say, experienced pilots who have newbies who want a game - the experienced players could take a pilot at the newbie level and get nothing for it.

Or vice versa - basiacally select points then select a pilot/skill/aircraft combo that suits.

Personally I quite like flying hte Gladiators

[Moon]

Originally posted by Jack Beckman:

This, for me, is a huge disappointment. The silly Gladiators are nearly useless in the air against the Oscars (which is what's come up the first couple of times I've tried to play). I have no interest in flying the crappy planes or "earning" my way up to better planes in the local version - I just want to fly some dogfights. The demo at least had some decent aircraft. There should be a "non-experiance/fatigue" option to just play some dogfights.

Jack, understood. Not sure what to say, though, because the idea of gaining experience and hence the ability to fly better and better aircraft is central to what DIF is about.

Of course it only takes about 10 games to reach the second level (Hurri I for the Brits I think) and only a few more to get to the same level you had with the demo (level 3).

Martin

[Jack Beckman]

It's never been central to me when I play the card game. And I didn't really care about it while playing the demo - it didn't seem so important then, either.

As for playing Operations online - thanks for the suggestion, but I don't always have time for that. I can play a "pickup" game vs the computer at any time, and if interrupted don't have to feel badly about aborting. Also, I had a hard time finding opponents online during the demo - I finally gave up on it as I don't have the time to devote to hanging out online for long periods to get into a game. It seemed at the time that if you weren't one of the "in" crowd that it was tough to get into a game.

I've taught a lot of people how to play DiF at ConsimWorld Expos, spending nearly all my time there, and I can tell you that I'd *never* start a new player out with something as crappy as a Gladiator. Why not the early Spitfire, or the Hurricane?

[kuroi neko]

We were discussing the matter with StalinsO and a few others, and we thought maybe you could add a different matchup system.

Let's say you and your oponent agree on a given level (number of XPs or resulting points), then both go to the selection screen, choose a nation, a plane type, buy skills, and play the game at whatever level both players agreed on.

Of course the pilots would be unranked, no experience gained and no leaderboard kills recorded. But that could relieve people from the frustration of having to play 10 gladiator/nate/109B/P35 missions before getting their hands on a "decent" plane (or rather 30 or 40 missions, since pilots must rotate due to fatigue, and thats not counting the huge number of games needed if you like to experiment with all 4 nations).

[Harold Jones]

Well I'm glad i checked here before buying the game. The direct X thing sounds like something that will be fixed. But this part seems to be a rather unfortunate design decision. Guess I'll have to stick with playing the card game FTF.

[kuroi neko]

Well my intend was certainly not to discourage people from buying this excellent game .

Frankly (and I owe no share in DVG ) the designers are extremely open to suggestions. In less than 2 months they did a considerable number of changes, most of them based on direct user feedback.

I am quite confident that the system has a great lot of potential for evolution, and I reckon buying the game in its current state, despites a few quirks, is the best way to support the team and get a chance to see all these very promising extensions one day.

[bartbert]

Personal preferences are bound to vary quite a bit. For those that would rather jump right into the action, I think the campaigns have a lot to offer.

The Daylight 1944 campaign will have you flying the best aircraft in the game with the opportunity to defend or intercept the big bombers. The campaigns do not have to played all in one sitting. You can play them one mission at a time, and they can be played against the AI or another player. Personally, I prefer the campaigns because I like the strategic context and the linked nature of the missions.

[Harold Jones]

Does Campaign experience allow me to 'unlock' planes for the local game? While campaigns sound interesting I really dislike the concept of having to unlock planes to play against the AI. A lot of the fun for me in the card games is trying out the what ifs and never happened battles.

[Jack Beckman]

But the campaigns leave those of us who want to play off-line out of luck. I'd like to see the ability to play at whatever level (with no XP gain/changes) while off-line. I just want to play a pick-up game solitaire now and then. I don't have a lot of time to spend online with games.

I understand that some will like the XP route, and certainly see the need for something like it (or the compromise listed above) for ONLINE games. But for off-line games, I now have to suffer through 30 or 40 Gladiator missions (because of pilot rotation) just to get to a decent aircraft. At 20 minutes or so per mission, that's 10+ hours just to play a decent solitaire game. And that's provided my pilots don't get killed in the meantime.

[bartbert]

I could definitely see providing an option for local games to play with whatever aircraft you want. It wouldn't mess with any of the online rankings, and would be pretty easy to implement. I'll check with Dan and Martin to see how they feel about it.

[Guest Mike]

The 1944 campaign is HUGE!!

But the point is rather to have hte ability to play someone on-line when you don't have pilots of equal ability - this is more pronounced now that more experienced players are getting up in ranks, and beginners are coming in at 3 pts.

[Sixxkiller]

A quick battle feature would be nice say if you want to just get on for a quick P-51D vs Fw-190A4 as long as it doesnt get tracked on the website, I dont see why they would turn off some potential customers to such a fine game. I think in time these folks may shun this feature in order to watch the role playing aspect take shape anyway.

On the other hand though even if they dont implement it these folks will be missing a fine game.

-Ray

[Evan Brooks]

I have reviewed several hundred computer games for various publications. I had played the card version of DIF from the time it was first published. Therefore, I can only add my voice to the cries of consternation.

The on-line version can well have the learning curve and plane ladder. But to deny the full capabilities of the program to one playing off-line is a flawed design decision of the greastest magnitude.

To have to play 10 or more games with various pilots (due to fatigue levels) in order to reach another level of accessibility is inane. What happens when one deletes the program from his drive and then returns to it a year later?

This design is guaranteed to prevent future revisits to what could have been an enjoyable interlude.

As the game currently stands, it is literally non-playable -- although it can be played, the operative fact is that the off-line version is tedious, repetitious and dull!

[Dan Verssen]

Evan,

As we speak we are putting together a 'to do' list of future feature additions. The list includes both being able to play any aircraft on demand, as well as offline access to the campaigns.

[Moon]

Yeah Evan (and Harald), good for you that with DIF very few design decisions are actually set in stone, unlike with so many other games. The fact that DIF is centered around a centralised online server and with the auto-update feature, we'll be able (and planned) to change many aspects of the game to adapt it to the community. So "as the game currently stands" really says little about where it will be in, say, 6 months from now.

Having said all that: the game has been designed as an online game with a central server and competitive online play in mind. Leaderboard, tournaments, head to head campaigns. That it does not appeal much to you as an off-line once-in-a-while deleted-but-played-in-a-year game of Solitaire is therefore not really surprising. But what you want is a different game as the one that has been designed. That is not to say that we might not be able to adapt it to suit your specific needs better in the future (like Dan said, we're following the input from everybody here very closely), but it means that your particular style of game has not been high on our priority list. It does not make the game unplayable, just unplayable as you want it to be played.

And funny enough, I personally enjoy playing offline with my local pilots and see them grow in skill quite a lot. Not being on a cable connection makes local play more attractive for me and preserves the role-playing character-building concept of the core game. If I had access to all the planed all the time, now that would be my personal concept of dull.

In the end, everybody wants different things from the game. That's good, and we'll be working hard to fulfill many of them over time. But initially, the game is what it is designed to be, and not what you would like it to be.

Martin

[Jack Beckman]

Perhaps this should have been made clearer in the demo, then - when we were flying decent aircraft off-line. I feel let down that I have to dedicate hours of time just to get away from truly terrible aircraft that I think make for a boring game.

So are you saying that if I can't play online, I should sell if off and look at it again in 6 months or a year? Geez, maybe I still have the demo around somewhere...

[Sixxkiller]

Evan, no offense man but what kind of a reviewer would say a game is unplayable that was obviously built around an online theme because you have to unlock planes to fly them?

I do know from playing thousands of games and from being a beta tester for a major developer during college and from being a closed beta tester on 11 more that this game is far from unplayable. In your time reviewing did you ever play and review a massive multiplayer or RPG game? You have to unlock skills by gaining experience dont ya?

Your argument holds no water and I am glad you arent employed to review this game and turn off potential customers.

-Ray

Originally posted by Evan Brooks:

I have reviewed several hundred computer games for various publications. I had played the card version of DIF from the time it was first published. Therefore, I can only add my voice to the cries of consternation.

The on-line version can well have the learning curve and plane ladder. But to deny the full capabilities of the program to one playing off-line is a flawed design decision of the greastest magnitude.

To have to play 10 or more games with various pilots (due to fatigue levels) in order to reach another level of accessibility is inane. What happens when one deletes the program from his drive and then returns to it a year later?

This design is guaranteed to prevent future revisits to what could have been an enjoyable interlude.

As the game currently stands, it is literally non-playable -- although it can be played, the operative fact is that the off-line version is tedious, repetitious and dull!

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by Jack Beckman:

So are you saying that if I can't play online, I should sell if off and look at it again in 6 months or a year? Geez, maybe I still have the demo around somewhere...

No - he's saying that if you can't play online then you'er limited to playing hte off-line functions.

I guess if you dont' like those then you don't like them - nothign anyone can do about that today.

Over time there may be additional off-line functions that you may find better, but they aren't here right now!

Even offline though you can get to play with more planes in hte game than you could in the demo - in hte demo you're limited to 1 type per country - offline in hte game you've got that at the start, and you get more as you even play a few games.

I can't see anyway that the demo could be considered better or preferable to play! :confused: :confused:

[Jack Beckman]

"I can't see anyway that the demo could be considered better or preferable to play!"

I didn't have to spend 10 hours just to get to a Spitfire in the demo.

[Moon]

And you don't need ten hours in the full version, Jack. We've tested and balanced the progression through the levels quite a lot during beta testing, and from what I recall (thought it's quite some time ago) it only takes around 5-10 games to reach level 2, and the speed in fact accelerates from there since you'll be getting more XP with better planes (especially when flying intercepts). Of course if you're losing a lot of games, it will take longer since you'll be acquiring more fatigue and less XP.

While I understand where you're coming from Jack, you have to also understand that your request is similar to asking the developer of an FPS game why you have to play through the first 10 levels before encountering the big showdown.

So to repeat: it doesn't take half as long as you say to reach mid level planes. It does take longer to reach the higher levels, but it's not impossible. And if you want to play without restrictions, you can play campaigns. Which at some point sooner or later will also be available offline.

Martin

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by Jack Beckman:

"I can't see anyway that the demo could be considered better or preferable to play!"

I didn't have to spend 10 hours just to get to a Spitfire in the demo.

If playing hte Spitfire is your only aim then I guess that does make hte demo superior.

But the Spitfire is well matched by the 109, and at every level you get opposing planes that match your own, so I look at it being not a of a lot different at a philosophical level

Except that the different planes inthe full game have different characteristics between themselves and tech levels, so you get "similar level" matchups wher the 2 sides have different characteristics rather than just the one combination you have in the demo - at that level the game is much more satisfying for me.