Production Technology

[Guest Mike]

The term Lend Lease covers all supplies from the US and UK.

they were a majority of some types of material, but significant even when they were not the majority.

tehre weer 3 lend-lease routes:

1/ the Arctic convoys - about 25% of the total by weight

2/ Through Iran - another 25%

3/ Across the pacific from the West coast of the USA and an air route through alaska - about 50%. this used Soviet ships that the Japanese left alone.

I used to have a map of these and delivery tonnages, but I seem to have misplaced it...I'll see if I can find it again....

Found it... http://www.o5m6.de/Routes.html

[ September 16, 2007, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ]

[Konigs]

Yes, Stalin's organist is right on track. Go here for some intersting information. The numbers are staggering. A couple of interesting facts, all aviation fuel for Soviets supplied by USA as well as 1981 locomotives and over 11,000 rail cars and almost 400,000 trucks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend_lease

[jon_j_rambo]

It's always the USA baby!

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Konigs:

Yes, Stalin's organist is right on track. Go here for some intersting information. The numbers are staggering. A couple of interesting facts, all aviation fuel for Soviets supplied by USA as well as 1981 locomotives and over 11,000 rail cars and almost 400,000 trucks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend_lease

I read that 75% of all logistics equipment used by Russia came from Western Allied convoys.

[Guest Mike]

Define logistics equipment?

the Soviets made more trucks than were delivered IIRC, but their trucks were based on early 30's technology (much of it supplied by Ford, autocar and other US companies) and were not as "good" as the 2 1/2 tonner.

Soviet truck production info is at http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/weapons/Trucks_buses.htm - unfortunately it's not seperated into eyarmy batches, but it tells us that hte Sov's made 420,000 GAZ-AAA trucks from 1938-1947, and 207,000 ZIS-5M's from 42-48 so they weren't ucking around eitehr.

Most truck production stopped in 41 tho.....

there's some tabulated info comparing Soviet production with lend lease deliveries for some items at http://orbat.com/site/sturmvogel/SovLendLease.html

[jon_j_rambo]

I think Honda is king now, thanks to Unions.

[arado234]

S.O. looks like the russians would have had a MUCH tougher time if the germans had managed to cutoff lendlease and used a sensible combined luftwaffe, uboat strategy against murmansk.

[jon_j_rambo]

Gerry wasn't stopping squat of the USA supply line. The only place he was going, was Hell.

[Guest Mike]

Lend Lease vehicles & a/c were probably most important to the Russians in 1942-43, when their own industry was still seriously distrupted and the war was apparently still in balance....from 44-45 it was probably less important as Russian industry was cranking out enough of their own stuff - albeit still using a lot of LL raw materials and machine tools.

cuttong off Murmansk would only have had a temporary effect IMO.

75% of LL came through other routes, and if the Arctic route got too hard they would ahve diverted to Vladivostock and Iran - I could see the US rebuilding the Siberian railroad if necessary to increase capacity.

Gee John....thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

Gee John....thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

LOL! I thought you would know better by now .

[Guest Mike]

Oh I know...I want to ensure he knows I know....

[jon_j_rambo]

Yo, what is there to say? The USA shipped alot of crap to Russia. Either it gets there, or it doesn't.

[Konigs]

[edit] US deliveries to USSR

American deliveries to the Soviet Union can be divided into the following phases:

"pre Lend-lease" 22 June 1941 to 30 September 1941 (paid for in gold)

first protocol period from 1 October 1941 to 30 June 1942 (signed 1 October 1941)

second protocol period from 1 July 1942 to 30 June 1943 (signed 6 October 1942)

third protocol period from 1 July 1943 to 30 June 1944 (signed 19 October 1943)

fourth protocol period from 1 July 1944, (signed 17 April 1945), formally ended 12 May 1945 but deliveries continued for the duration of the war with Japan (which the Soviet Union entered only 8 August 1945) under the "Milepost" agreement until 2 September 1945 when Japan capitulated. 20 September 1945 all Lend-Lease to Russia was terminated.

The list 1 below is the amount of war matériel shipped to the Soviet Union through the Lend-Lease program from its beginning until 30 September 1945.

Aircraft 14,795

Tanks 7,056

Jeeps 51,503

Trucks 375,883

Motorcycles 35,170

Tractors 8,071

Guns 8,218

Machine guns 131,633

Explosives 345,735 tons

Building equipment valued $10,910,000

Railroad freight cars 11,155

Locomotives 1,981

Cargo ships 90

Submarine hunters 105

Torpedo boats 197

Ship engines 7,784

Food supplies 4,478,000 tons

Machines and equipment $1,078,965,000

Non-ferrous metals 802,000 tons

Petroleum products 2,670,000 tons

Chemicals 842,000 tons

Cotton 106,893,000 tons

Leather 49,860 tons

Tires 3,786,000

Army boots 15,417,001 pairs

[edit] See also

Now rememeber the 2751 liberty ships that were produced to deliver these supplies as well as our own armies, equipping our own armies, deliveringthem to Europe, the mighty air forces(320,000 aircraft) that were used to defeat axis and the 22 aircraft carriers, 141 escort carriers, 8 battleships, 48 cruisers, 349 destroyers, 498 convoy escorts, 441 submarines etc.....

For many more interestingnumbers and GDP comparisons read here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II#Aircraft_carriers

[Konigs]

If you read the above link and look at the GDP chart, Axis including Germany, France, Italy and Austria had a significantly higher GDP than the Soviets and British upto and including 1943. Actually neither of them could compete one on one with the Germans. While USA GDP was higher than all constituents by 2:1 goes almost to 3.5:1 over the next closest who is Germany in 1944. Just more interesting things to share with everyone....

[Liam]

Konigs, I'm certian many of those items never saw combat, and though some of them may have been lower quality than the Axis...at least German... didn't much matter

Some staggering #s they're mind boggling to look at, imagine if the USA had geared up in 1939 to stop The Axis... WW2 would of ended much sooner

Though Russian Manpower is something we were unwilling to sacrifice as American Manpower and unlikely to find a front suitable for such a large army.

[Konigs]

Agreed whole heartedly, to this day we use weapons and not manpower to win wars. I think we learned our lesson during the Civil War, too many Americans died for not too much. Seems we are still trying to right those wrongs today, even though those issues are almost 150 years old. See you....

[Konigs]

Anybody know a link to see Lendlease in total to other countries? I cannot find this. MAybe you Stalin's Organist, I like all the data and links you bring to the forum...

[Edwin P.]

FYI - Most Lend Lease supplies arrived in Russia via Iran.

[SeaMonkey]

Speaking of GDPs, I believe at the end of WW2 the USA equalled the rest of the world combined, which means USA GDP = 50% of planet Earth's.

And now almost 65 years later the world is catching up...as it should be, but the catalyst still remains quite reactive.

I wonder why that's so?

Just luck...I guess................or did it start with:

The 300? (not just lip service from these guys)

[Konigs]

Hi Edwin P., go back a few posts and you can see Stalin's Organist post showing routes, 50% went through the northwest, see here http://www.o5m6.de/Routes.html

See you,

[arado234]

Looks to me by those numbers even if germany had built the 300 u boats doenitz said he needed(unless they were available before the amis. came in and starved england) it wouldnt have mattered in the long run.With ultra and the incredible amount of allied equipment, we would have still driven them fom the seas.The only hope the germans had would to have been to destroy all the different ways russia was recieving material(goodluck with that).Its amazing germany held on as long as she did.

[jon_j_rambo]

You guys are getting "too Bunta" again.

[ September 18, 2007, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[Guest Mike]

I haven't actually ever sen a list of LL to other nations, but I have read that LL totaled about $50 billion, of which $11 billion went to the USSR, and $31 Billion to British and Commonwealth countries.

The remainder went to other countries - 35 received LL in total including China and pretty much all teh conquered European nations that had exiled forces based in the UK or Russia.

IMO any number of type XXI's wouldn't have mattered a whit in 1945 except for killing a lot more allied sailors. Germany was beaten and even severly disrupting the convoys wasn't going to stop the defeat - it might have delayed the West a few months and allwoed the Sov's to get a bit further across Germany, but that's all.

[ September 18, 2007, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ]

[arado234]

Rambo i think we are agreeing with you.The the amis.are what won it in the end.To much stuff for the germans to stop.

The only hope the Buntas had would have been to defeat england(50/50 chance at best)and let the soviets treat them as liberators when they first invaded.Also actually working with the japanese on an overall strategy would have helped.Then we would have been in trouble.But hitler was what he was and there was really no hope of either(especially the russian bit)ever happening.If that had all happened it still would have been a massive bloodbath.Hurray for our side.

[Liam]

The Axis had a chance to win. They weren't at war with America and wisely should have never been. U-Boats were deadly in WW2 pre-1943

Though ultimately since they help to bring the USA into WW2 they were deadly against Germany not a winner, like WW1... Plus the Alliance with Japan was really no use it wasn't actually coordinated as the Big Three

The USA was such a producer because a HUGE Agricultural Base, the Best of European Stock, Massive Industry, all that and isolation from constant European Conflict gave her a perfect window to build and be powerful... USA was a great oil producer at one time... Plus nearly the size of the European Industrialized World.

Which what else was there back then? Japan-China, some Asian Oil and Rubber... USSR is mostly Siberian Steppe, Deserts, Artic areas