TCP/IP Game AAR

[pzgndr]

This will not be a detailed AAR, but I'll offer some comments and insights about a network game in progress. I'm playing as Allies in the 1939 campaign.

The big news is that tcp/ip is now working, but still needs a little work. I ended up hosting because of some technical problem on the other end, starting as the inactive Allied player, so it's nice that either player can host. Data transfer between turns is a bit slow, 3-4 minutes, but again - we're playing. Hopefully it will only get better.

Poland held out through October. Just lucky that surrender was delayed a couple turns after Warsaw was captured, but every surviving unit helps increase the chance of delayed surrender. Germany then took Denmark with a couple of air strikes and an amphib landing into Copenhagen. Note that Copenhagen port blocks access to the Baltic, so Germany is now free to maneuver but Allies can no longer rush in to sink the Kriegsmarine.

We had a naval skirmish off the coast of Norway in December. The Atlantic sub was apparently trying to break back into the North Sea and got surprised by my cruiser, and that started the chain reaction. Allied fleets moved in, then German air and naval attacks, then a final Allied attack and withdrawal. The fight-move feature works at sea also. In the end, I lost the Royal Oak battleship but managed to sink a sub and cruiser. Fair enough.

Sitzkrieg in the winter was uneventful. I moved my BEF into the Maginot Line on the SE end. This is a safe position which allows a future op move withdrawal if necessary, and allows the French to defend the rest of their border. That was my idea for this game anyway. US managed to get an IT advance, and USSR got L2 heavy tanks.

Germany attacks and defeats Benelux in May, but oddly does not advance to the French border to be positioned for attacks with 25% readiness bonus. But maybe this is out of caution to avoid French attacks with the readiness bonus, so may be OK. But - June weather brings rain and mud! German blitzkrieg into France is sluggish but kills an army on the border and advances toward the mine. BEF attracts some attention and takes some hits.

French withdraw back toward Paris, but the eastern defense holds. Weather clears and Germany gets behind the mine occupied by my French HQ and attacks the French AF to the south. Panzer attacks destroy a couple more units. After this, BEF op moves away. French counterattack to kill the German army SW of the mine. By now, the defense is worn out but still there. Another turn for the Germans to clear eastern France and then beat on Paris. France surrenders in August. Italy joins.

Along the way, USSR got a rocket advance in March, L1 aircraft tech in April, and L1 IT in May. France put a couple of diplomatic chits into Iraq towards the end, but had no effect prior to surrender. UK in the meantime was licking its wounds from the naval skirmish and slowly reinforcing the units in Egypt. English homeland defense was also a priority, requiring some new troops. UK has to be very careful with its limited MPP budget! About the only upgrades I made along the way were my cruisers, giving them L1 ASW. It is too easy to overspend on things you want and then not have anything left for what you need.

September 1940 brought Italian air attacks on Malta and German DOW on Yugoslavia. Very quiet in the Med so far. No activity for either side on the Libyan border. UK is just preparing. USA, with very limited MPPs, has focused on starting research and also built another corps. Things will pick up from here. Game will resume tomorrow.

[beginner's luck]

Thanks for posting this. Anyway we can have a "few" pictures!!!???

Is it just me or does it seem like USA and USSR are going to be very strong(maybe overly strong) by the time they enter war. With all those tech advances the will have elite troop at very start of their turn. Or atleast that sounds that way to me.

[Edwin P.]

COOL - "Copenhagen port blocks access to the Baltic, so Germany is now free to maneuver but Allies can no longer rush in to sink the Kriegsmarine." :eek:

Cool - "The fight-move feature works at sea"

Interesting - "UK has to be very careful with its limited MPP budget!"

Cool - "USSR got a rocket advance in March, L1 aircraft tech in April, and L1 IT in May."

Many thanks for this AAR, much appreciated.

[ January 14, 2006, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Kuniworth]

1. Can you tell us more about the tiles...what is your impression? Is it working better than hexes as Blashy thinks or is it "awkward" in the beginning before you get used to them?

2. Do France need to be stronger or have more units?

[Kuniworth]

3. Retreat rules included?

[Kuniworth]

.

[ January 14, 2006, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ]

[pzgndr]

1. The tiles really are not an issue. Turn off the grid and you can't hardly tell. And once you get into the game, you're more concerned about other things - or should be.

2. France surrendered in August 1940. Why should they be stronger?

3. There are no retreats implemented. This might get reconsidered after release as an enhancement.

Is it just me or does it seem like USA and USSR are going to be very strong(maybe overly strong) by the time they enter war.

USA and USSR are challenged to build enough units and research their starting techs prior to entry. Maybe they'll get lucky with some tech advances, maybe not. Neutral majors have their production tied to their activation value; ie, at 24% activation they only get 24% of production. By the time they get closer to war entry, there's the production delay for new unit builds to worry about. Also, USA has to decide what to spend and what to transfet to UK/USSR via lend lease. There's a lot to balance.

Anyway we can have a "few" pictures!!!???

Maybe. It takes time to do screenshots, post them, and link them to an AAR here. It's enough for now that I'm taking some notes, posting some comments, and answering a few questions. Even Kuniworth's.

[Capt Andrew]

Outstanding. Thanks pzgndr.

How will inactive Soviet technology affect the Barbarossa defense for you? IE - Do you get less units available to you? Can you upgrade the units you start with while inactive? How are you finding the dipolomacy working? How is the Intel feature affecting the game for you?

I know it's a pain for screenies, but there are hundreds of us long time lurkers that have been jonesing for ANY news on SC2. Screenshots would be a nice bone to throw us if you find the time. Thanks for posting this. (By the way, who's your opponent? Can you say?)

[beginner's luck]

Originally posted by pzgndr:

It takes time to do screenshots, post them, and link them to an AAR here. It's enough for now that I'm taking some notes, posting some comments, and answering a few questions. Even Kuniworth's.

Didnt realize it was hard to do the pictures. I do thank you for giving any info so just do what you can. I know its hard to answer KUNI's questions so your probably tired.

BTW KUNI what retreat plan are you talking about. Looked back but didnt see any posts about that before.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

It seems to me that tech advances happened too fast

for the major neutrals-there probably should be a

brake on that somehow, and no catch-up feature for

them either.

[pzgndr]

An update. Yugoslavia surrendered in November 1940, as Hungary entered. Without Hungary, German panzers had to advance slowly from the northwest and it took 3 turns total to reach and subdue Belgrade.

With threat of Sealion passed, I took advantage of winter stormy weather to risk transporting a corps from England to Egypt. Not knowing the u-boat situation, this is tricky. So it becomes a team effort for battleships and cruisers to scout ahead and provide escort for the transport. After a few turns without contact, except for one cruiser damaged by storms (yes, that is a possible weather effect!), I managed to reach the naval loop arrows.

Italy and Germany attack Greece in March. The Greek armies in the north hold for a turn, but the panzers advance and take Athens in May. The panzers are attacking to gain experience, which is a little harder to get now.

As June comes and goes, USSR prepares for a German attack. I'm up to about 8 armies, 9 corps, 2 tanks, 2 AFs, an HQ and an engineer. Not too different from what we had in SC1. I am able to move about, so like two football teams lining up for the play both sides are shifting for position. I am wondering if spotting of and by neutrals should be disabled. It would be so much more suspenseful for both sides to be blind until actually at war, and allow for more options for both sides.

Iraq had a pro-Axis coup in May, rising to 80% activation. There is a chance this event could result in Axis activation, but it's slim. Diplomacy effects could change this. My corps arrived in Egypt. No sign of Axis activity on the border, and I haven't stuck my nose out too far to find out. (I tried that in an earlier game and got hurt.) And there we've left it for a while, July 1941 and Germany poised for Barbarossa. We'll pick up again later.

I'll add a comment about the interface. During your opponent's turn, you get to see your MPP totals displayed. So unlike SC1, you're not left wondering "What do I have?" as you ponder your next move while you wait.

[pzgndr]

It seems to me that tech advances happened too fast for the major neutrals

Seeing how I'm playing Allies with neutral USSR and USA, from my perspective things are happening very slowly. Yes I did get a few advances. But remember also that with the new consummable chits, you have to reinvest all over again after getting an advance. I am struggling to build units, research what I can, and then worry about upgrading units here and there. Those tech advances no longer translate into free upgrades for all of your units.

The point I am going to emphasize is that you have limited MPPs and can only do so much. As the player, YOU get to decide. More research investments and a little luck may mean you enter the war with some great tech. But you probably won't have many units, or ability to upgrade the ones you do have.

Another point about upgrades. You can only upgrade units, not "downgrade" them to lower tech. Once you upgrade, the unit cost increases 5-10% depending on the tech, and that affects reinforcement costs also. As USSR, I have left my front line units pretty much at default L0 tech levels for now so I can afford to do other things. You may chose to do something different. The key thing is that you do get to decide these things, for better or for worse, and each game should be different.

[SeaMonkey]

Thanks Bill

[Edwin P.]

How valuable is the engineer unit? I assume you used it to fortify Russian lines while they were neutral.

[Edwin P.]

I am wondering if spotting of and by neutrals should be disabled. It would be so much more suspenseful for both sides to be blind until actually at war, and allow for more options for both sides.

Historically, Russia allowed German planes to overfly their border areas. Germany did not allow Russian planes to overfly lands conquered by Germany.

[ January 15, 2006, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[pzgndr]

Another update. Germany delayed attack on USSR until early August. So I had time to get in another build before rebuild expenses kick in. I mentioned above how I did not upgrade my front line. Well, it succeeded in doing its job - delaying the German blitz. But I didn't get many survivors out of the deal. One army and one corps that got destroyed were not totally cut off and became eligible for the rebuild discount (60% cost and 1/2 production delay). The rest died with their boots on.

One panzer blitz to Minsk reached one of my air fleets and zapped it down to strength 3. Another attack hit my tanks north of Minsk. I tried to do an attack-move to withdraw, but my finger slipped on the mouse and I lost the move. These things happen. Anyway, between the fighting withdrawal and holding out in cities, Odessa fell in mid-August, Riga in late August, and Minsk and Kiev in mid-September. Partisans arrived NE of Riga. The German fleet with 2 battleships and a cruiser dispatched my Russian fleet quick enough - there's nowhere to run and hide.

I pretty much have my cities and Dnepr mines garrisoned with upgraded infantry (L1 inf weapons and anti-tank), my AFs are withdrawn, and my other tank is defending along the Dnepr.

While this was going on, O'Conner struck into Libya with 2 armies and a tank group. Tobruk only had a corps garrison, and it fell in late August. Now the decision is whether to press on or wait until USA entry, and deal with Iraq in my rear.

UK also decided to start some strategic bombing. After hitting the French mines unopposed I went after the German homeland and met interceptors. Still got through and did some damage. I then shifted my campaign to the French ports. Again, some damage but I can't tell what. And my bombers took hits along the way too. I will comment that I have spotted both German and Italian bombers. So I need to consider their spotting range and ability to strike at my fleets and ports.

USA is now over 40% activation, and lend Lease is starting. I need to set some percentages during my next turn. USA can transfer MPPs to UK, and UK can transfer MPPs to USSR via convoys. Decisions, decisions. OK, we've broken off for now and should resume again tomorrow. It's mid-September 1941. Whew, 2 years in 2 days. And the game is playing pretty well.

[pzgndr]

How valuable is the engineer unit? I assume you used it to fortify Russian lines while they were neutral.

I did use it to fortify the tile north of Leningrad. It now has a corps garrison to keep the Finns back. Finland has the Mannerheim HQ for supply and leadership benefits, so I expect if he can't come through Leningrad he'll try to swing around to the east. The engineers have since moved on elsewhere to dig some more.

[vveedd]

Good AAR. Thanks pzgndr. Two questions:

1.What are the benefits for Allies when Poland surrender is delayed?

2.Did you use paratroopers so far? Impressions if you did?

[pzgndr]

Delayed Poland surrender means tying down the Germans in the east for a while longer and delaying plunder. Germany needs those MPPs to buy stuff for the campaign in the west, and with production delays that could hurt the timetable for spring 1940.

I do not have any allied airborne yet. Germany gets their fallshirmjagers in early 1940 so can use then against Norway and/or France. I had them drop in to secure the French mines. They provide a little extra flexibility if you have paratroops and they have had their turn for preparation (ie, ready to drop).

[vveedd]

Originally posted by pzgndr:

Delayed Poland surrender means tying down the Germans in the east for a while longer and delaying plunder. Germany needs those MPPs to buy stuff for the campaign in the west, and with production delays that could hurt the timetable for spring 1940.

MPP values for plunder are always the same or it goes down by time?

Originally posted by pzgndr:

I do not have any allied airborne yet. Germany gets their fallshirmjagers in early 1940 so can use then against Norway and/or France. I had them drop in to secure the French mines. They provide a little extra flexibility if you have paratroops and they have had their turn for preparation (ie, ready to drop).

Does Paratroopers have to be in city to make a drop?

Did Germany gets MPP from that paratroopers occupied mine if can’t trace free path to home territory?

[ January 16, 2006, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: vveedd ]

[pzgndr]

There are adjustments to plunder based on several factors now. A swift victory should maximize plunder, while a slower victory should maximize troop experience - if you do it right. The point was no plunder at all until surrender means added delay.

The German Paratroops in this case dropped after the Maginot was breached and the mine already attacked. They just provided the final kill shot and occupation. Even with tiles providing additional attack possibilities, you sometimes need just one more. And to drop, they need to be in supply with a 7 or 8, not necessarily in a city.

[pzgndr]

Another update. October 1941 rain and mud in Russia slows everything down. Germans advance some, consolidate what they have, reinforce, etc. I'm holding Leningrad with an army and a corps north of it; 3 corps in the Smolensk area; and 2 armies and 2 corps along the Dnepr and Kharkov. I have my other tank group in reserve south of Kharkov. Other than that, there are garrisons in Moscow and Rostov but not much else. Unlike SC1, you cannot establish a solid defensive line anywhere, nor can the Germans present a solid front line either. There are pockets and gaps and unspotted regions. For now, mud defends me.

USA started Lend Lease. Players can set up to 30% production for transfer to UK; I've set it at 20%. UK Arctic Convoys to USSR work the same way but up to 40%; again I've set this to 20%. So far, German u-boats have not been interfering with any convoys.

In November, the Germans get a breakthrough on the lower Dnepr and cut off my army down there. An attack at Smolensk destroys a corps north of the city. Partisans appear again near Leningrad. In Africa, the Brits push onward and seize El Agheila, destroying the Italian corps. In late November, the Germans capture one of the Dnepr mines but the other holds. December came and went without anything significant.

In January, the Urals Industry event triggers, based on Germans occupying Minsk and/or Kiev previously. This activates a couple of cities and a mine in the Urals, starting at strength 1 and slowly increasing each turn. The additional MPPs will help. An intersting battle occurred near Kharkov. One of the panzers had advanced adjacent to my tanks. So I attacked. We're both at L2, me with a readiness bonus and him with experience and both of us with a supporting HQ. He was at 7 or 8 to start and I expected to inflict about 6 hits, but a very lucky shot resulted in a kill! I lost 5 points myself and retreated, dazed and surprised. No Siberian transfer yet, but the Russian Winter strikes.

In February, Russian Winter event effects are like partisans everywhere. German occupied cities are all reduced to about 1 or 2. HQs continue to provide supply, so the Germans are not completely paralyzed. In fact, they go after my surviving tanks with a vengence and kill it. The other remaining Dnepr mine continues to hold.

Not much happened in March. In the west I resumed some strategic bombing, which was prevented during winter snow and mud weather. Half range doesn't go too far! I am starting to plot something in the west.

The Germans seize the remaining Dnepr mine in April, continue attacks on Smolensk, and start attacks on Leningrad. I expect Leningrad to hold, but it falls in early May. A couple of air strikes, tank attack and infantry assaults all in one turn do the trick.

Also in May, stormy seas in the North Sea clear and I pull a rabbit out of the hat. I've loaded a corps out of Edinburgh onto amphib transports and plan to raid into northern Germany. My bomber with L1 long-range just east of London can spot a garrison in Hamburg but Essen is vacant. Just to be sure, I move a cruiser ahead to verify the invasion zone is clear. Now, with the new SC2 rules, I can move my amphib transports adjacent to the vacant coastal tile north of Essen and west of Hamburg, unload, and then move to occupy Essen. Mission accomplished!

The German counterattack was swifter than I expected. I knew there was an air fleet nearby, plus the garrisons in Hamburg and Brussels. The HQ, panzer reserves and another motorized infantry unit were not expected. Essen was retaken as quickly as it fell, but the loss of a city's production for several turns will have a lingering effect. Plus those reserves were delayed from possible use in Russia for a while longer, or whatever they were intended for.

We held up again here. It's June 1942. The Germans have taken Leningrad and Smolensk plus the two mines in the south. Moscow and Kharkov and Rostov are ahead. USA is at about 89% activation now and should enter the war soon. USA production is at about 182 MPPs and USSR at 252; both are at L2 IT and hoping for yet another tech advance to boost production. Sometime in May the Siberian transfer occurred and I've now got a bunch of reinforcements out around Kuybyshev east of Stalingrad. Summer 1942 should be interesting. Later.

[Edwin P.]

Interesting, it seems as if Russian production, (ie 252) is below the production from Sc1 at a similar point in time.

One turn raids, I wonder if this could work against Bucharest too?

Do you see strategic bombing as an effective strategy?

[pzgndr]

USSR production starts a little lower since those Urals Industry resources are frozen. They're activated now and will start increasing. Also, as IT tech and/or the new production tech (yes, there are 2 different possibilities - to increase production AND to decrease costs) reach higher levels then the player will see those benefits. Also, Lend Lease can help make up for some MPP shortages. It's a little more complicated than before but better reflects the economic expansion possible.

Raids. We need to all experiment with these some more. In SC1 you could see where the landing would happen and everyone wanted a change. Well, it all changed. Now you have no clue until its too late. This forces you to garrison against every possibility, or take risks. As seen in my demonstration, it can work but you will likely sacrifice your participating unit(s). UK could sneak in and take Rome or USSR could take Berlin with a raid if the Axis player isn't careful. Between surprise amphib raids and paratroop drops, we're likely to see some very interesting games in SC2.

As for strategic bombing, it's hard to tell since you get no BDA. I will say that my first raids had no intercepts, and then I got some. When I started taking damage, I shifted my campaign from Germany to French ports. Some effect is happening, but I can't tell. Axis bombers are in play since I've seen them, and I expect once they get in range of Caucasus oil fields they'll start doing something. Bombers are cheaper in SC2, about 300 MPP, and their strategic attack value is increased to 5, so players should find them more useful.

As for game strategy in general, we're still learning to appreciate some of the nuances of the game. I'm still getting used to the new manual attachments for HQs, mode settings for air fleets and subs, what to expect with weather, etc. It's a new game, and we're having some fun with it!

[vveedd]

Game sounds very, very interesting. Still, as much as I like surprises, this raid to Essen (or Berlin :eek: ) sounds too unbelievable. Maybe SC2 need beach tiles after all.

Haven’t seen much about diplomacy. I hope that this option will not be like strategic bombardments in SC1 (useless).

Actually, my proposal for all test players is that they should pay more attention to some stuff which didn’t work well in SC1 like strategic bombardments, tanks, antitank research, air fleet superiority. Maybe they should try some good old tactics from SC1 in SC2.